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3.5mm IS DEAD. Betting it all on ligtning, (w/adapter)

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Comments

  • edited September 2016

    @Sonicflux said:

    @Nubus said:
    TIme for me to complain.

    It's form over function. If you want cutesy fashion (Tim) this is for you. Ports are Soooo ugly Yikes!

    No it isn't. It's space-saving and water-proofing over an outdated standard.

    lol outdated standard - its perfect the way it is, thats why there was no need to change it ;)
    you mean that outdated standard that just works in realtime when you plug something in,
    no latency, no extra thing to keep charged and drag around
    this bluetooth stuff is completely unusable if you want to make music, in case you didn't get the memo
    if you just want to press play - what are you doing here?

  • @lala said:

    @Sonicflux said:

    @Nubus said:
    TIme for me to complain.

    It's form over function. If you want cutesy fashion (Tim) this is for you. Ports are Soooo ugly Yikes!

    No it isn't. It's space-saving and water-proofing over an outdated standard.

    lol outdated standard
    you mean that outdated standard that just works in realtime when you plug something in,
    no latency, no extra thing to keep charged and drag around
    this bluetooth stuff if completely unusable if you want to make music, in case you didn't get the memo

    I don't think the problem is the change to Bluetooth, as that's just an option. The problem is that they are getting rid of a 'standard' and leaving you with only their proprietary plug option. Fine there are ways around all the issues involved, but they rely on Apple playing ball and not blocking out other manufacturers use of the socket.

    I'm not saying moving socket tech forward is not desired at some points in the tech life cycle, it's just that proprietary tech does not replace a standard. Proprietary tech is too reliant on large companies not stifling the smaller companies making compatible devices.

  • IF the pairing is seamless, and IF the audio is good quality and IF it is latency free, in a couple of years when we can start a tune on iPhone, Air drop it iPad/Macbook, and carry on editing it without changing headphone or speaker wires or USB wires for controllers (BT Midi) around....we will all be saying what a brilliant idea it was.

    Those are some big if's at the start though.

  • I want the new phone, and I don't have a major issue with the lack of 3.5. But I have a Shure MV88 and I won't be able to monitor it anymore. Though, generally I just sit it somewhere, so I don't actually monitor it as it is anyway.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
    The busier I get in life, the more I've found myself using my iPhone for music, rather than my iPad.

    I actually spend way more time making music (cumulatively, but in very small pockets of time) on my iPhone.

    I make patches and loops and stuff in Gadget, I ping loops around in and out of BlocsWave. I do sound design in Animoog, and mess with sounds in Model 15 and iDensity. I hook up AUM, infinite looper and the Ruismaker and Moog apps to have fun jamming.

    Most of my favourite apps are now on the iPhone.

    Increasingly I don't have the time, or see the added value in breaking out the iPad, unless I've got time for a serious session of finishing a track / mixing in Auria, or doing some kind of filmed performance. Or using Samplr. So that's not very often.

    The phone is just always with me.

    So im a bit concerned about this development. I was thinking of getting one of the new oversized iPhones for the above reasons. But I'm not so sure now.

    This has been me for the last several years. I am so busy that I barely get a chance to do much more than "small pockets" of music creation time. I use my iPhone exclusively, I love my iPhone 6 Plus, and while I am concerned about the loss of the headphone jack, there are ways to get around it:

    • Using the iPhone with a CCK3 (Lightning to USB3 adapter)
    • Bluetooth Headphones & wireless keyboards
    • Lightning to 3.5mm adapter
    • New and upcoming third party adapters and sound cards

    With any combination of these things, everything that was done prior to the iPhone 7 can be done with no problem with the iPhone 7. Charge and use an external soundcard? No problem. Headphones and keyboard? No problem. Wireless usage? 20ms latency--but those of us who have been there for the beginning of the digital revolution for audio workstations and DAWs will remember that DirectX was about as good as it got (prior to ASIO), and 20ms was considered the norm, and very acceptable. 20ms is just the time it takes for sound to travel 20 feet. It's noticeable, but usable. We are acting like this change is the end of the world, but not. We have great choices, and an improved phone coming! :smile: I, for one, like all of the new features the iPhone 7 contains, including an hour longer battery life! Waterproof, better built-in speakers, no home button to wear out and have to repleace, etc. The Lightning to 3.5mm adapter is only $10! :sunglasses: And, to be really, really honest, I seldom charge my phone and use it for music at the same time. I'm always on the go. If I get a chance to do music, it's away from my charging cord. :wink: We all need perspective on this. It's not the end of the world!

  • edited September 2016

    killing the headphone jack is not a way forward,
    it just leads to a) more adopters and more problems
    or b) headphones with a lightning jack that doesn't work with anything else
    (look at my futuristic $ machine ;) )

    they give a fuck about audio now
    what is important now is the god damned camera :|

    _cough
    do the math yourself @ 120 bpm a 64th note is 31.25ms long, a 64th triplet is 20.833ms long
    so you see these few milliseconds are a lot in an musical context, (forget about thinking in distances - its just a way to make it look not so bad, you are playing notes in a time grid - distance isn't that important ;) )
    so if you have the bt latency however long it is you are x notes to late ...
    this adds to the latency you already get from playing on the glass until the thing makes a sound ... _

    lets sum it up 40-50ms + 40-50ms(?)= 80-100ms = so at 140 bpm thats a dotted 32th note to late (no need to be mozart to hear this) ...
    this will give you the if the note doesn't come today it will play it tomorrow feeling

  • @Hmtx said:
    I have to say, now that this is real, I embrace the future. I think the end result will benefit us all. When I use my headphones thru the camera adapter to Scarlet 2i2, the sound is far superior to the 3.5mm jack. Hopefully this "courageous" (lol) move by Apple will mean many good products come to the market that make it cheaper and more portable to get a superior mobile listening experience.

    And for all those who don't care about that, the EarPods and Beats will suffice.

    I feel the same way (I didn't used to, but I do now). In the end, things will all work out, and the adapter isn't expensive.

  • @Audiojunkie said:
    In the end, things will all work out, and the adapter isn't expensive.

    In that link posted above, it says the adapter will be included with iPhone 7's

  • @Munibeast said:

    @Sonicflux said:

    @Munibeast said:
    Shame on Apple, it's a real show stopper.

    No it isn't. There will be plenty of solutions in time for Christmas. Things change and progress and people adapt. Headphone jacks will be rare on new phones in two years. I don't see the need for all the drama, but if that's your thing, then more power to you.

    Let me know when you purchase an iDevice without a headphone jack. Unless you give up on making music on Apple mobile products, it will happen.

    Oh great, the prophet has arrived! Thanks for enlightening us.

    Regarding the headphone jacks being rare in 2 years: I honestly don't see the headphone jack going away ANY TIME soon. This is purely an Apple move. I don't see this being adopted by any of the others. That said, I agree that more and more Apple-based solutions will quickly arrive that remove the problem, and things even now aren't as bad as it seems.

  • @Samu said:
    I think we'll soon see combined interfaces with what we all need (Audio In/Out and Midi In/Out, Charging and USB) in small neat mobile packages. Like an extra battery case with ports etc...

    Agreed!

  • @Tovokas said:

    @Samu said:
    Currently I'm not at all affected by this 'lack of 3,5mm' since both my iPad Air 2 and iPhone 5 still work just fine :)

    I feel bad for the folks who are currently committed to an all-iPhone setup, but by the time this impacts iPad users (if it does) the field of possilble solutions will hopefully be large.

    I, as one of those committed to an all-iphone setup, am not too bothered by this. I seldom charge and create at the same time, and the CCK3 will cover everything else. If the time comes that I DO need to charge while working, I'll probably buy an external USB device that has a headphone jack, and use my CCK3 to charge things while I work. :smile:

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @brambos said:

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @lala said:
    ok apple
    so the bulge of the camera is an ok thing to do,
    but the 3.5 plug is to big to fit in? :D
    reality distortion field :o

    The camera is too big to fit it so there's a bulge...do you want another bulge for the 3.5 plug?

    Not to mention that the camera is a huge selling point of the phone.

    The outrage over removing the floppy drive from their computers died down pretty quickly. Everybody just happily moved over to USB storage. The same will happen with this and manufacturers will scramble to get their wireless products up to snuff.

    Don't get me wrong; I hope they'll keep the jack in the iPad, but I won't be surprised if they don't. And quite frankly, making wireless more mainstream and getting rid of horrid bluetooth pairing shizzle is something I can justify as "the greater good" (just look online how many problems people still seem to be having in 2016 with bluetooth headphones not working consistently - someone just had to step up and streamline that for good).

    Without beating on the already long-dead horse, my own upside to this Mother Courage move is exactly this, the fact that the market should now drive wireless headphone quality in a way it hasn't managed to date. We'll see.

    Agreed!

  • @ikmultimedia said:

    @DaveMagoo said:
    I wonder if you could use the lightning to 3.5mm adapter to get audio into an iPhone ?

    The adapter photo during the event showed a TRRS cable next to it, and we will be testing that adapter with our analog interfaces. As far as other interfaces go, we currently have iRig Pro DUO with its own outputs and will share any news on other related interface products as soon as possible.

    Cool! What would be REALLY cool, would be if we could record stereo straight into the phone with nothing more than a nice pre-amp. :smiley:

  • @AndyPlankton said:

    @Audiojunkie said:
    In the end, things will all work out, and the adapter isn't expensive.

    In that link posted above, it says the adapter will be included with iPhone 7's

    Cool! But if it's ever lost, won't it be nice to know that it's not $30 to replace? :wink:

  • @lala said:

    this bluetooth stuff is completely unusable if you want to make music, in case you didn't get the memo
    if you just want to press play - what are you doing here?

    Here's the memo that you have, apparently, missed dozens of times. You can still use headphones with the new iPhone.

  • edited September 2016

    its not the same
    i could listen to some music now, if only my headphone batteries weren't off
    i could make some music now if only i had the !"§$ing adapter with me
    ...
    I've lost count on how many apple adopters I lost or forgot some place over the years,
    sing along club :#

  • @lala said:
    i could make some music now if only i had the !"§$ing adapter with me

    I could make some music now if only I had my iPhone with me and not this stupid guitar and my voice! Damn you, technology!

  • Want to listen to an iPhone 7 and charge it simultaneously? That'll be £35 - the guardian
    https://apple.news/AySeSKF67Tky1f98y4fY9lg

  • edited September 2016

    Belkin to the rescue....

    There will be others along in a minute.

    In the meantime if I ever get an iphone without a jack I'll have to dig this out of the cupboard.

  • @lala said:
    its not the same
    i could listen to some music now, if only my headphone batteries weren't off
    i could make some music now if only i had the !"§$ing adapter with me
    ...
    I've lost count on how many apple adopters I lost or forgot some place over the years,
    sing along club :#

    How long do the batteries last in the earpod things per charge?

  • @brambos said:

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @lala said:
    ok apple
    so the bulge of the camera is an ok thing to do,
    but the 3.5 plug is to big to fit in? :D
    reality distortion field :o

    The camera is too big to fit it so there's a bulge...do you want another bulge for the 3.5 plug?

    Not to mention that the camera is a huge selling point of the phone.

    The outrage over removing the floppy drive from their computers died down pretty quickly. Everybody just happily moved over to USB storage. The same will happen with this and manufacturers will scramble to get their wireless products up to snuff.

    Don't get me wrong; I hope they'll keep the jack in the iPad, but I won't be surprised if they don't. And quite frankly, making wireless more mainstream and getting rid of horrid bluetooth pairing shizzle is something I can justify as "the greater good" (just look online how many problems people still seem to be having in 2016 with bluetooth headphones not working consistently - someone just had to step up and streamline that for good).

    With you on all that. Can hardly contain myself with anticipation that they solved the wireless latency problem. Is that too much to ask? If the W1 chip can do super low latency, then wired may be moot for most uses. Sure large performances will want wires to avoid interference on a grand scale, but then lots of gear is already de rigueur. Crossing my fingers that this new wireless is finally the thing. Also with @Samu on letting a 1000 DACs bloom :)

  • edited September 2016

    Guys it's just regular old Bluetooth. And it works with most BT4 enabled iPhones.

    I think iOS 10 brings some special pairing tricks but I don't think we can expect latency improvements or to produce live music with EarPods. (In spite of the revolutionary Apple marketing dust)

    Source:
    http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods

    Look at the compatibility list.

  • edited September 2016

    @High5denied said:

    @lala said:
    its not the same
    i could listen to some music now, if only my headphone batteries weren't off
    i could make some music now if only i had the !"§$ing adapter with me
    ...
    I've lost count on how many apple adopters I lost or forgot some place over the years,
    sing along club :#

    How long do the batteries last in the earpod things per charge?

    5 hours max

  • And it will be a nice set of cordless earphones for calls and Siri. The experience will be seamless I'm sure. That's what Apple does best.

    ...just not for us :-(

  • edited September 2016

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @brambos said:

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @lala said:
    ok apple
    so the bulge of the camera is an ok thing to do,
    but the 3.5 plug is to big to fit in? :D
    reality distortion field :o

    The camera is too big to fit it so there's a bulge...do you want another bulge for the 3.5 plug?

    Not to mention that the camera is a huge selling point of the phone.

    The outrage over removing the floppy drive from their computers died down pretty quickly. Everybody just happily moved over to USB storage. The same will happen with this and manufacturers will scramble to get their wireless products up to snuff.

    Don't get me wrong; I hope they'll keep the jack in the iPad, but I won't be surprised if they don't. And quite frankly, making wireless more mainstream and getting rid of horrid bluetooth pairing shizzle is something I can justify as "the greater good" (just look online how many problems people still seem to be having in 2016 with bluetooth headphones not working consistently - someone just had to step up and streamline that for good).

    Without beating on the already long-dead horse, my own upside to this Mother Courage move is exactly this, the fact that the market should now drive wireless headphone quality in a way it hasn't managed to date. We'll see.

    Apple have a habit of being too cutting edge sometimes. The removal of the floppy drive a case in point. At that time disk burners were pricey and not standard, the internet slow and basic, and I had floppy-only software to install on a conputer with no drive. Fast forward 15 years and they remove the CD/DVD drive when people still need one. A mate recently had to go and buy an external one.

    I don't get all this streamlining bollocks. Fashion over functionality = arrogant designers. And it's hardly streamlined when you have to bolt on external devices and adapters.

    The wireless earphones are expensive, and look ridiculous. So I'll have to use an adapter when/if I get the new one. If it wasn't for the tasty phone specs I doubt I'd bother moan groan whinge

  • @Munibeast said:

    @High5denied said:

    @lala said:
    its not the same
    i could listen to some music now, if only my headphone batteries weren't off
    i could make some music now if only i had the !"§$ing adapter with me
    ...
    I've lost count on how many apple adopters I lost or forgot some place over the years,
    sing along club :#

    How long do the batteries last in the earpod things per charge?

    5 hours max

    Ok, I'm a business man. I talk on dee phone a lot! More than 5 hours a day. I get my morning and afternoon talking done, now I need to charge these damn things. So I can finish my evening calls. Or.....I could just buy an extra set. Or.....just plug into the lightning port. Wait. Question. Can these be used for phone calls?

    Is there a built in mic on one of them? And......why do I care so much. I'm just curious is all.

  • While I'd never expect AAPL to cater to the sub/fractional needs of music makers, what strikes me it's slap to the dozens upon dozens of of large and established companies that build listening equipment. In terms of why an iPhone needs an external audio device, in my view, there's making calls, and then consuming media - be it YouTube, Netflix, or to my point ones iTunes library.
    There are just so many interfaces that rely on the 1/8" stereo plug. My car has one, one of my receiver/amps has one (the other has the ubiquitous mini-to-rca). All my headphones/earbuds obviously. All of those companies agreed on an interface to allow a consumer to choose - HDMI, RCA, 1/4", whatever it benefitted the industry as a whole. And history proves those that try to force a new interface/format just haven't succeeded - 2.5mm jacks, Betamax, whatever.
    And while in a personal listening situation - on the plane or train or whatever - using your Bluetooth or adapter isn't really a deal, there's a strong social aspect to listening to music. Carrying the kids around to school or soccer, or friends at the house, 1/8" allows anyone to play "the song I just downloaded on iTunes" in the car or the stereo, but "I don't have my adapter" takes away from that shared moment.
    And to me, it's AAPL telling all the manufactures of my listening gear "you are behind the times" and telling me I'm out of date for not having a Bluetooth car or Apple TV. For a company that makes a bit of money off selling music, it just looks like a serious misunderstanding of those companies that allow you to hear it - and allowing the consumer to have a choice in that.

  • I told you it'd be coming back.

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