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Ok. I'm only looking at recording iFretless MIDI with pitch bends in Cubasis and then using that to control iFretless so that what you hear is the same as what was originally played. Any use of Cubasis keyboard or pitchwheel is outside of that scope.
Indeed,and i love you more than words can say,for doing that Paul...
but if you can't get your bendy bit straightened out,this ain't going anywhere
Re: BM2 crash... We had this problem since very early versions of ifretless. I thought it was because both apps use a huge amount of RAM but that should be ok on newer iPads.
Re: cubasis midi recording problem. I want to make sure we implement midi output in a way that follows standards and works with most apps. There is a standard for MIDI and this problem of apps not talking to each other is caused by developers not following the standards. If our app is not following, we will correct the problem. But if cubasis is the one not following standards, we can't break standards just to make iFretless work with one app.
I'm interested to hear if there is any issue with other apps. I will try to do some testing on my own. I probably won't buy every iOS DAW just for testing though. I'll start with BM2 and GarageBand because I have them already.
Thanks @Sirhans.
I could be wrong but don't think garageband lets you record midi data into it..??
May be worth taking the topic up on the devs forum as most apps that implement midi are having these problems.
Thank you, Sirhans... ifretless guitar is really the best solution to play strings and keys on the Ipad, and correct midi to Cubasis and other DAWs would be a dream.
But - what about an elegant midi record option inside ifretless (as NLog PRO offers), and a way to edit the midi track and all events in another window (similar to the Nanostudio track editor), plus option to save this as ifretless project file and midi file... I would love to pay for this extra!
@commonstookie I have to apologise. I can't get a reliable and varied interval pitch bend playback into iFretless Bass from Cubasis. I suspect that what made me think it was working was that I had played a part that only contained pitch bends of a single interval, which happened to sound fine with the pitch bend settings I used. Unfortunately, if a bend interval exceeds the setting, it gets limited to the setting. Also, setting to 12 semitones to circumvent this makes all the bends go haywire, so that's no solution. I suspect this is a Cubasis problem, for the following reasons.
IFretless Bass pitch bends correctly when controlled by iFretless Guitar. It also pitch bends correctly when controlled by Geo.
Unfortunately, Geo has no MIDI input functionality, so I couldn't try recording Geo MIDI into Cubasis and playing it back again into Geo. Sorry to bear bad tidings.
On the other hand, iFretless shows the same issue with Xewton Music Studio, so what do I know? :P
The best workaround would be indeed internal midi record/edit.
@PaulB,thanks for trying.Was good of you.
I'm starting to think that apple left midi out of garageband because they knew there were too many 'midi standards' floating around ios..?
And again, come back to the need for all apps to support one midi standard.The current standards work,...just not with each other.
With regards to pitch bend...
Ifretless bass 'talks' to ifretless guitar.
Thor and Nave talk to cubasis. Ect..ect
The only way I see things working out is if every dev removes midi from their app and starts again with 'one' standard.
Or the fix comes in ios 7 and Audiobus adds this to its already easy to use interface,so we can send and see the flow of our midi signals.
@Syngularity,I kind of like your idea,but would it mean every app became a stand alone DAW?
@commonstookie
I tested ifretless midi with BM2 and GarageBand today. I don't have cubasis yet, sorry. I see what you mean about midi being a mess on iOS.
GarageBand doesn't register an input port for other apps to access so the only way ifretless can connect to it is via the midi connecting app called FreEWI. Once connected, however, it plays and records notes and bends perfectly except with smart strings, which don't allow MIDI bending at all.
In BM2 it took me fourty minutes to figure out how to connect to it from other apps. When I got connected, it sometimes didn't show up in the list of destinations in iFretless and iFretless wasn't listed among the inputs in BM2 but despite those annoyances, the two apps were able to connect. MIDI notes and bends recorded in the usual way, and I could playback recorded MIDI into iFretless with the bends still sounding as they did when I played them.
The tests above took me about two hours. these midi systems are too complicated. There's no way an iOS app dev can buy every iOS DAW just to adapt our app to support the midi idiosyncrasies of each individual one. As you said, there's a problem with standards here. For all I know, our own app may be the one who isn't following them. We test with a lot of software but we can't test with Everything. Maybe a MIDI version of audiobus would do the trick but the coreMIDI API from apple is REALLY simple already. Even if something simpler came out, it might just complicate e situation even more by adding yet another standard to the mix.
@paulB, @commonstookie
Is the problem with xewton music studio the same as the problem with cubasis? If so I will buy xewton and use it to debug this issue.
@sirhans Did you vary the degree to which you were bending the notes? I found it easy to find a setting that played back correctly if all the bends were the same interval, but impossible if I used a variety of intervals.
Thanks @Sirhans
Just to confirm...you were playing from ifretless into BM2?....i.e..not using the BM2 keyboard to play ifretless??
I agree,let's not complicate thing anymore,but the idea of an effects slot style box,in the middle of the Audiobus UI,that handles the flow of midi between apps could help.
Not a new standard,but using what core midi already does.
May require all apps to have the ability to fit into input or output slots tho.
Then it could just be as easy as turning on/off midi input or output for said app/s
This could alleviate the problem of loop back.
Micheal may already be in his camper van heading for some surf,but when the holiday season ends,would be nice to hit the ground running.
http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/512/whats-all-this-midi-stuff-about-then/p1
To all devs...it's holiday season.
Lets have a break and chillax.
Wish you all very nice holidays either, looking forward to work with ifretless again, after this little midi issue will have been fixed :-)
@Sirhans.yes...I also got it working in BM2 but settings in BM2 require you to switch off all midi output setting while recording.
And to switch off input settings while playing back.
Will try the same proceedure for cubasis.
Edit...still no joy from cubasis...
@Sirhans Why not email the authors of the apps you want to be compatible with, and have them give you a code to their apps. You developers should be giving each other codes to your apps so that you don't have to purchase everything--that way things can work better with each other. It will benefit us consumers in the end, so I think it ought to be an unwritten rule amongst you guys that you work together on inter-operability, including giving each other free codes for testing.
@everyone I'm not a developer, so I don't know what iOS 7 or Audiobus have in store, but I have been under the opinion that Midibus ( http://audeonic.com/midibus.shtml ) covers all of the needed midi bases, and is easy for developers to integrate. Am I right? Does anyone see any flaws in this reasoning?
@audiojunkie.
Only if all devs add midibus.
Not all have added jack and others may be waiting to see what fix Seb and Micheal offer within Audiobus.
@Commonstookie I was under the impression that Midibus was completely virtual midi compatible, and that it was just drop-in code for proper virtual midi so that everyone would be talking the same with each other. In other words, I believe that non-Midibus apps and Midibus apps would be, in theory, compatible with each other....it's just that with two Midibus apps, they would be guaranteed to work with each other, rather than being the current hit or miss ordeal we have now. Also, it would be easier to integrate, since the code library is available for developers. That's how I understand it.....
Your right Sean,but what does a dev do if Audiobus updates with midi routing?
@commonstookie I can only dream that Audiobus does that....It would be BEYOND AWESOME if the Audiobus team did that and did it right!!! The three things I would LOVE to see in the next iteration of Audiobus would be MIDI integration (including clock sync and transport control), multiple effects slots with volume level mixing (or something similar with routing), and presets. It would be nice for Audiobus to open and close apps as well (as an option).
I guess, if a developer would do what the Midibus developer is doing regarding Audiobus and iOS7--taking a wait and see approach to see if it is even worth doing. I imagine our answers will come after iOS7 is released...
That's the trouble with buses.
Nothing for ages then 3 arrive at the same time.
But while we sit and wait,it's worth reflecting on what an incredible year it's been so far for ios music.
Like what you've been doing also,
Thanks and +1 for your wish list.
@PaulB, @commonstookie
Ok... I'm still testing in BM2. Here's what I found:
1) I did not see any setting for midi bend in BM2. It's apparently fixed at 2. So you have to set iFretless midi bend to 2 if you want bends or zero if you don't want them.
2) BM2 passes midi through and that is causing problems with ifretless. When using iFretless to control BM2, I observed the following:
A. If you disable midi output on the track to which you are recording, everything works perfectly.
B. if you set a midi channel for output in BM2, every note you send to BM2 gets sent back to iFretless, which causes the midi bends to get messed up.
C. If you set BM2 midi out channel to All, both apps freak out.
I am guessing that cubasis is having the same problem and that this is caused by the 2.8 update of ifretless where we allowed iFretless to send midi and receive midi at the same time, thereby creating possibilities for feedback loops.
Suggested solutions:
I. Make sure that cubasis is not sending the midi notes back out after receiving them from ifretless. When you want to record midi in, enable only the input in cubasis. When you want to send midi back out to ifretless, disable the input and enable only the output.
II. When using ifretless as a controller, make sure that the midi input does not become enabled. In the last update, we changed the midi input system to make it automatically switch the input on when another app sends midi to the iFretless midi port. If you don't want that you have to open the nemo and turn off background audio.
We will investigate this looping issue and come up with a way to stop it more intelligently but until we do, I hope these things will help. We made the changes to the midi system because we wanted to make it simpler and more automatic. Apparently we need to either go back to a system where ifretless won't receive midi unless the user turns on the midi input or else we need to make our automatic system smarter.
@Sirhans,thanks for doing this.
Only does a few slides,but wouldn't be the same without them..
@Commonstookie Does disabling background audio in iFretless while you are recording MIDI in Cubasis solve the problem for you?
@Sirhans
Yes I does.
Edit...
Ifretless will bend cubasis piano but when I switch cubasis midi out to ifretless,am not getting the bend sent back to ifretless yet.
Turn off MIDI out in iFretless when playing back from Cubasis.
Ifretless lets you switch midi in to 'none',but out channel only has omni or 1 -16.
Where is the the midi out off setting Paul.
Got it
Midi destination!
Thank you @Sirhans and @PaulB.