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Comments
these short term ideas would be, as you know, freaking amazing 😉
Makes sense.
Huge news!
People would die for this!
I suppose this timeline is accessed by plugin coders using the host transport state block property, right? (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/audiotoolbox/auhosttransportstateblock) But no support for the parameters cycleStartBeatPosition and cycleEndBeatPosition? If AUM could integrate a simple UI for a cycle start/end loop region, then I believe this would be very useful for many plugins (like Multitrack recorder).
Yep is the worst part but it's possible to just use IAA and funnel loops into it.
Alternative path could be naming your files in AudioShare properly so Blocs gets all the data suited straightforward.
Source
@TheDubbyLabby : that’s excellent, thank you! I’m just off to relabel all my AUM file recordings (I do capture that info whilst noodling but didn’t RTFM the Blocs Wave enough to pick up the syntax trick). I’ll also have to try the direct recording in IAA thing. Very interesting...
I’ve always wanted the aum mixer inside Cubasis. That would be amazing. Of course, even more amazing would be if @j_liljedahl eventually made AUMDAW. (I’d throw money into a kickstarter to get the ball rolling)
That would be amazing and I suspect very popular.
Not sure I agree about AU parameter automation though. Surely that would be just like a piano roll, except you'd have lines/splines for the thing you were automating.
I just played around this and while it does work, it's kind of fiddly. What might be a nice addition would be to make it possible to enlarge that 'timeline', so that scrolling can be a bit more precise/faster. Or provide a way to type in a position to at least make it quicker.
What he said!
I switched to using AUM as my only DAW / mixer on my iPad a little while ago and I would gladly purchase a pro version of it that offers even more DAW options that are not feasible for the regular version's vision. I think this is hands-down the best music app on the iPad!
I would pay good money for AUM with Xequence 2 built in.
I think Ableton Live Set export is something to consider. I don't know if this format could be read by other DAWs as well?
Glad to be helpful.
https://ableton.github.io/export/
I think AUM is almost perfect in it’s current form. Fast, streamlined and joyful. Combined with mozaic sequencers, generators and modulators it’s become endless fun.
I can only wish for two things (as IAPs of course)
1. Additional m4l/bitwig like modulators with easy drag’n’drop connections. So you can drop it on fx slot and quickly assign few parameters for different fx without menu diving. With this I don’t need eurorack so much.
2. Basic sampler. Maybe with gesture recording like in samplr without midi implementation.
I will look it up. I haven’t heard of it, probably because I’m iPad only, but if it’s still tied to the Mac / PC mantra, it might be one of those not quite fit for iOS purpose things. That was the other part of the initial discussion - how we look at these needs from a perspective of a touch screen centric environment. My initial idea was to look at choosing the export needs by dragging graphical representations of the required tracks into circles that represent bus groups.
I think along the lines ideas got blurred between this being an ideas discussion for how the DAWless, modular environment could go forward encompassing multiple apps and touchscreen centric ideals, to become just a relative wish list and peoples fears of app UI distortion. Not quite what I had intended, but thread have a habit of going in unseen directions
Been interesting though.
OK, who else didn’t know that you can drag the timeline in AUM!!
Thanks @j_liljedahl
I’m also in agreement that a built in Daw like timeline in AUM is not the way to go, I can see why people want it, but this is the beauty of Audio Units, just add what you need. I feel the same about apeMatrix and Audiobus. AUM should focus on it’s prime purpose to create an optimal environment for adding, combining and mixing these units to make it what you want..
Timelines don’t work too well on small touchscreens, but we’ll have more options in the future as more developers come up with alternative audio units to solve the problem.
Apps like Sunvox AU turn AUM into a daw with a timeline as soon as that gets midi out, that’s a great solution for automation recording etc
Excited about Ableton set export and things like that appearing in AUM to make desktop workflow integration smoother
Any clip launcher style app I should look at to learn what users want?
That's correct. And no, since AUM does not have any loop region it does not set the cycleXXBeatPosition values. I'll consider adding this in the future!
I think @j_liljedahl points about how much he already has on his plate and how it’s a struggle to maintain what he already has is a very real challenge for many developers. The more features and functions an app has, the more difficult it becomes to maintain the app. More things can go wrong and it can frequently be more difficult to troubleshoot these as well. The advantage of a modular approach with multiple apps is that you can have multiple app options on how you want to approach your music workflow. On both iOS and laptop/desktop operating systems we see this approach in the form of AUv3 on iOS and AU/VST on the latter.
To make things manageable for all in one production environments, we’ve seen apps like Gadget or Caustic, you have to sacrifice some integration with other systems in return for internal stability.
I think supporting efforts where AUv3 host apps and AUv3 developers collaborate more to improve the user experience seem like they’d be more sustainable rather than trying to encourage an AUv3 developer to resolve all of your preferred workflows for you.
Similarly adding support for various standards such as AUv3 automation, how AUv3 windows work, AUv3 automation, exposing AUv3 parameters, saving AUv3 presets, Files app support, AUv3 multi-bus out, MIDI ports, Ableton Link, Ableton sets, audio interface I/O, and transport control/integration can be implemented in slightly different ways or not at all which complicates the musician’s experience on iOS. If developers add more features, it can become more difficult to maintain and more confusing for their users to figure out how everything works. Adding new functionality to an existing app that wasn’t designed with those new functions in mind can be challenging and compromise the original design. App developers have to strike a balance between features, user experience, and how to maintain an app. Since a significant proportion of iOS music app developers do so as a hobby or side project, they’re often unfamiliar with many of the functions heavy app users take for granted and may scramble to add some of these in after their app has been released and receive user feedback.
Furthermore, since there are a wide variety of ways in which people prefer to make music, combining different apps together makes more sense than expecting an all in one solution for your specific workflow as this would be a smaller market than for an app with broader appeal.
It’s quite easy to be an armchair developer or ask for what you’d like to have, but it’s much more difficult to evaluate whether these ideas can be realized in an app in a sustainable way. It’s not easy being a music app developer as we’ve seen many of them come and go. We’ve often seen developer’s set out a roadmap for an app’s development and failed to see it materialize (i.e. the best laid plans of mice and app developers).
It’s funny how many people were so against a hypothetical discussion of extra features that wouldn’t have changed AUM to any major degree, yet did not know that some of the features needed to make those additions work, are already built in to the app already
I will end my time on this thread with one sentence - competition in the host market is needed, as all needs are not being served in iOS music making as yet.
I agree that an Ableton like MIDI/Audio clip launcher + automation solution as an AUv3 plugin would also fulfil all my needs and it most probably would not require to change a lot in AUM and would still keep the DAWless charme. I think what we need from AUM to make this come true are some features where I don't know if they do not already exist yet or not:
Moreover what I'd expect/wish from such a clip launcher plugin:
A couple of things I’d like to see potentially added:
Touch based midi routing mode where you select the midi source without going through a list or on the matrix, touching the app icon instead in the mixer view when the mode is on. (only available sources light up)
Auto populate AU parameter mapping mode: eg The track could listen for sequential midi messages and then assign them to subsequent AU parameters in the list. Then one could write mozaic scripts to assign midi controllers easily to AU parameters automatically.
This happens frequently with many apps and people are often averse to reading the manual or using in app help. This is another reason why developers have to decide who they’re designing their app for because there’s a big difference between someone willing to read a manual versus someone who won’t in terms of how your app will be used and what user expectations will be. I don’t think either group is wrong or right, they simply have different preferences and time constraints as to how much time they’re willing to spend learning an app versus using it.
So what I’m reading is that you need to establish an LLC, get some funding, and hire some people 😉😜
That's not what I meant. I meant AUM following SPP. Would be cool too if it sent SPP along with MIDI clock as well. But ... we've had this conversation before and I understand that you're not interested. Would be great though.
That would be a nice short cut. How would you enter this mode, and how would you select the destination?
I see. Yeah there's not much point in following MIDI SPP if it's not following MIDI clock
Even better would be if Ableton Link added "locate to song position" to their protocol. They did add play/stop commands after a lot of requests, so maybe!
I already have an LLC (but it's called AB (Aktiebolag) here in Sweden), but I'm not so sure I'm willing to hire people and make the whole thing blow up
Agreed re: Link SPP. That would be amazing!
I was thinking (hoping) that a hybrid approach might be possible. Link for timing + SPP to get to positions on the timeline. I know that's a Frankenstein approach. Last time we talked about this you weren't interested in the idea, so I'm not trying to push it here.
Personally i just would like to see a few more improvements mainly with the fileplayer.
auto create new track + load last recording in player.
use fileplayer like a basic sample player. Chromatic and for loops. Pitch and cents correction
Currently triggering a loop with midi just doesn't work and audio has clicks.
Beat offset smaller than 0,25. Being able to offset the sample by 0.01 increments would be perfect for small corrections or slip a sample into a groove.
Save AUM project including all used audio in file players to make it self contained.
The above with Xequence would be just perfect.
Scale the interface up and down to see more tracks.
Scroll during tap and hold to move a track in one go.
Lock the midi mapping window while midi learning using internal apps as a midi source.
I am more than happy personally that AUM development focus is on live performance. There are countless DAWS out there anyways