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RE: Fine tuning, 432Hz, etc.
Is there any good information out there regarding fine tuning, and diverting from the 440Hz standard?
Seems like most of the information on the internet rests on one of two sides, the side that claims a 432Hz standard and other tuning standards are more in tune with nature with some even saying the 440Hz standard is part of a conspiracy to devolve modern art into a psychological manipulation tool...
Something not so far fetched when you consider the propaganda of people like Edward Bernays in the 20th century...
And then there’s the other side which debunks and ridicules that first side.
I don’t really care about those two views, neither of which really offers an exploration into what fine tuning can do.
To me it’s an interesting path to take, to slightly alter the scale you are using.
I came across an article a while back that looked into how it altered chords, for better or for worse, but could not find that article or anything like it.
In the end it just seems to me, as an admitted baby musician, to merely be like music itself: A matter of sound and a matter of taste.
If anyone has any further knowledge on the subject, beyond new age type claims and rebukes, please share!
Comments
If you use an equal temperament system, tuning the A either as 432 or 440 won't alter the chords obviously. Now if you use unequal tuning system and transpose the music, then the intervals in the chords may change depending on the system and the transposing intervals. I'd say you might want to look into many unequal tuning systems—either historical ones or those that you make up yourself—and see how they affect the harmony, which will be much more useful than debating whether 432 or 440 is better in an equal tuning system.
Now if you have a perfect pitch, of course the music will sound (and feel) differently—70s British rock bands tuning lower than modern bands, etc., but that's a different thing. 👍
A more interesting and useful discussion is over micro tuning within scales, specifically, the intervals between notes rather than overall tuning center.
The article I referenced, the one I could not find, made mention of how the entire Hz tuning scale is on a curve. Though I believe it is a slight one, so its impact minimal.
The other thing worth mentioning is how sound is actually physical, a vibration hitting your ear drum. So to disregard impact altogether seems to sell it short.
That being said the conclusion I keep coming back to is that it's just a matter of taste, and that fine tuning then become another tool in the tool box to play around with to get what you want, though without further information it's just a tool of trial and error.
It's also such a subtle difference, that I think few if any will notice anything.
That's to say it's a detail of no real significance, which is maybe why there's not much information on it!
Should also be said the devolution of modern art in the 20th century was real and a deliberate one (and probably still is?), but having more to do with content, with that content being one of chaos and hopelessness for the sake of breaking people's psyche into compliance.
Best way to prove this today, and that yes it probably is still taking place, is to remove yourself from the so called "modern" art experience for a good period of time (weeks or even months) to detoxify so to speak. Then come back and the assault will be more clear.
It's that old adage, too far in the forest to see the trees, or the one about the boiling frog, etc.
Pitch used to be all over the place until 440 was made a standard. In the past it varied between regions, I believe to such an extent that there might be a semitone difference in the same note in different towns.
There is no benefit or noticeable difference to any of it, unless maybe you have an especially unique brain in some musical way.
I think it's a bit like wondering if there is some mystical difference between going 99.8 km/h or 100.4 km/h rather than the standard speed limit of 100 km/h.
Feel free to try for yourself though of course.
Also, one other concrete example. I have an acoustic guitar in the living room. It gets tuned whenever it sounds a bit off, which is often. I just tune it to itself, and the chance that A=440 at any given time is really slim. I've never noticed anything notable going on there.
Right, I get what you mean. There will be a difference, and you should certainly investigate this matter more if you really feel it's essential. I can't because I don't have perfect pitch, so I won't benefit much from it... I'm the beast when it comes to relative pitches, you give me one pitch and I can tell whatever afterward, but for the life of me I can't identify an absolute pitch without a reference - could be C or F#, seriously.
But you should also look seriously into what @wim said above. there's a world of immense complexity in microtonal music—quarter tone, third tone, etc, and unequal tuning of course. Using properly, you can evoke emotions and expressions unlike 12-equal temperament. That'd be more useful in the long run as a composer/songwriter. 👍
I can't really think of anything important "in nature" whose resonance frequency would be exactly 432 Hz or a fraction or multiple of it (especially considering that 432 has no mathematical connection to any physical constant as far as I can tell and the Second is also an arbitrarily defined unit of time).
So it's probably some kind of snake oil / conspiracy theory thing.
What IS definitely special and DOES have a special connection to "nature" is 440 Hz, because that's what's used everywhere and what everyone in the world has been exposed to since infancy, so the nerves for the corresponding frequencies in the ear (which is a mechanical spectrum analyzer) and the connected neural pathways in the brain ARE definitely and specifically developed for 440 Hz and its fractions / multiples in almost every human being on Earth.
(I have no education and this is all purely from intuition).
(no offense intended to any kind of conspiracy theorist! I know conspiracies exist!)
Try it. Odds are you won’t hear any difference at all. As Wim noted above, microtonal scales are far more ripe for exploration.
Odds are he or she will if it's not a blind test with enough time between listens to clear the memory of the pitch. The power of suggestion is strong.
please try 432hz over a longer period of time and feel what happens. i did so a long time ago and love that tuning.
several bluegrass musicians in older times did so and i gave it a try and felt good to stay there.
Tried it. You're right. I felt different. I felt ... silly.
Sorry, I'm just pulling your chain. I don't see it as important enough personally to bother, but that isn't to minimize anyone else's experience. The only rule in music is "If it feels good, do it!".
yes, that is the way to go. thanks..
Man, I give up.
I can’t even tune my guitar to a precise pitch.
The pitch keeps constantly varying, slowly dropping over time.
😂
It's trying to migrate to 432Hz tuning. Just give in. 'Tis the way of the cosmos.
So, do nothing?
I am real good at that!
The idea of old bluegrass musicians using 432 seems unlikely. The only tuning mechanisms were pitch pipes, tuning forks, or a nearby piano. As someone who has played guitars with other people before widespread affordable tuners, you'd generally just tune to whoever's instrument was most in tune with itself. Then someone brings in another guitar which is slightly out and they'd tune to the first one, without ever referencing some standard. The specific hz was irrelevant. I also had an old piano which got tuned once. The tuner said because it was so old he wouldn't tune it up to concert pitch to lessen the tension on it a bit. I never noticed a thing.
But if you have got evidence of these bluegrass players using 432 as a preference I'd be open to having my mind changed.
With a guitar, playing alone at home, I'd tune it so its strings are in tune with each other. That could be between 430 and 450 and no-one one would likely notice. Sometimes I'd go to play with someone else and find I'd migrated maybe a quarter tone out.
The idea of a standard is very handy for musicians getting in tune with each other. But the idea of the subtle differences being worth investigating for musical potential is just a waste of time.
In the interest of dead horse flogging, I just took a survey of several non-electronic instruments at home, all of which are "in tune" with themselves.
acoustic guitar: A = 448
piano: A = 437
home electric guitar: A = 438
gigging electric guitar, fresh out of its case after the last time I played live a week ago: A = 442
there's nothing to see here.
I see someone who needs to use a tuner.
😁
😆😈
@CracklePot I know it's a joke. I hope it's a joke anyway
A bloke owned a guitar shop next door to a chain store guitar shop. People would go to the big store first and then go into his to compare the guitars. He’d tune his down to 432 and people would say his guitars sounded deeper and richer and buy from him instead. Things just sound good when tuned a little lower, so they say...
Why stop there?
Why not go all the way to 420 ?
The difference between 440 and 432 is roughly equivalent to tuning your guitar a quarter-step flat. Most people will not hear the difference. There’s nothing magical about either number.
I’ve been tuning to 432 for a while now, I don’t personally notice much of a difference but I make music for new age crackpots (pretty woowoo myself) and would lose half of my listeners if I didn’t use mostly 432hz. My baritone ukulele sounds better tuned down tho
I find Hemi-Sync (Binaural Beating) far more interesting than the 440 vs 432 thing...
Play a 80Hz tone in Right ear and 82Hz in the Left ear and go nuts (2Hz 'Awakened Mind')
Here's a list I found somewhere on the inter webs...
Headaches: 10.0Hz and 5.0Hz
Attention focus: white plus 20.0Hz
Att. foc. from drowsy: +12.0Hz
Creativity: 6.8Hz +6.5Hz + 9.0Hz....motion to 13Hz
Learning aid: 6.0Hz
Meditation (basic): 7.0Hz
Med. (deep): 11.8Hz + 13.0Hz
Schumann Res: 7.8Hz
Self Hyp: 11.9Hz beat
S. hyp. complex 11.9/7.0/13.0/10.0Hz
sleep: 12.0Hz reducing
awakened mind: 15.0Hz/10.0/7.0/2.0Hz
Mental refresh: 17.0Hz reducing
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210004-8.pdf
Cheerios!