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Why doesn’t Apple value people making music on iOS?

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Comments

  • edited August 2021

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    As to photography and video, let’s face it... it’s a helluva lot easier to produce an acceptable and attractive result.

    Are you sure about that, Maestro? :)

    Respectful counterpoint: talented photographers and video makers are just as few and far between in the "social media content creator" crowd as remarkable musicians. Their talent needs to be just as big to stand out and their job is not easier in any way. IMHO of course.

    Yes, I’m reasonably sure it’s easier to make a halfway decent picture than a halfway decent picture. You don’t see Facebook filled with millions of second rate melodies, but there’s plenty of half decent pictures. We’re talking about Apple’s interest in hobby markets, I think.

  • @ervin said:
    "Innovation, creativity and ethics"

    • innovation: we can give you (almost) proper widgets in ios, a mere 10 years after android!
    • creativity: as a brilliant example of out-of-the-box thinking, we are convinced none of you need those pesky headphone jacks, memory card slots - or more than one port, really
    • ethics: if you devs are serious enough to sue us we might pretend to let you out of our payment racket

    Sorry, I am aware this is one-sided but I couldn't resist. 🤷

    The other side of the coin is that they also give us GarageBand.

    On iOS.

    And Mac.

    For free...

  • @AudioGus said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    As to photography and video, let’s face it... it’s a helluva lot easier to produce an acceptable and attractive result.

    Are you sure about that, Maestro? :)

    Respectful counterpoint: talented photographers and video makers are just as few and far between in the "social media content creator" crowd as remarkable musicians. Their talent needs to be just as big to stand out and their job is not easier in any way. IMHO of course.

    For sure, I do agree, but he did say ‘acceptable and attractive’ though and not ‘remarkable’. He also did specifically refer to ‘many, many more hobbiests’ and was not talking about those who ‘stand out’.

    For "acceptable", okay, fair enough. It is indeed much less painful to scroll through 20 feeble photos than listen to one crap "beat". For "attractive" though, I stand by my argument. :)

  • @LinearLineman said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    As to photography and video, let’s face it... it’s a helluva lot easier to produce an acceptable and attractive result.

    Are you sure about that, Maestro? :)

    Respectful counterpoint: talented photographers and video makers are just as few and far between in the "social media content creator" crowd as remarkable musicians. Their talent needs to be just as big to stand out and their job is not easier in any way. IMHO of course.

    Yes, I’m reasonably sure it’s easier to make a halfway decent picture than a halfway decent picture. You don’t see Facebook filled with millions of second rate melodies, but there’s plenty of half decent pictures. We’re talking about Apple’s interest in hobby markets, I think.

    Sure but literally every Facebook user has and uses a camera, while far from everybody has and uses a music making tool. The proportion of half decent photos is still dwarfed by the quadrillions of crap ones.

    So while I concede it's (physically and technically) easier to take a picture than it is to "make a beat", the 90% is crap rule, which another colleague mentioned here still stands IMHO.

  • @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    As to photography and video, let’s face it... it’s a helluva lot easier to produce an acceptable and attractive result.

    Are you sure about that, Maestro? :)

    Respectful counterpoint: talented photographers and video makers are just as few and far between in the "social media content creator" crowd as remarkable musicians. Their talent needs to be just as big to stand out and their job is not easier in any way. IMHO of course.

    Yes, I’m reasonably sure it’s easier to make a halfway decent picture than a halfway decent picture. You don’t see Facebook filled with millions of second rate melodies, but there’s plenty of half decent pictures. We’re talking about Apple’s interest in hobby markets, I think.

    Sure but literally every Facebook user has and uses a camera, while far from everybody has and uses a music making tool. The proportion of half decent photos is still dwarfed by the quadrillions of crap ones.

    So while I concede it's (physically and technically) easier to take a picture than it is to "make a beat", the 90% is crap rule, which another colleague mentioned here still stands IMHO.

    Agreed.

  • @ervin said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    As to photography and video, let’s face it... it’s a helluva lot easier to produce an acceptable and attractive result.

    Are you sure about that, Maestro? :)

    Respectful counterpoint: talented photographers and video makers are just as few and far between in the "social media content creator" crowd as remarkable musicians. Their talent needs to be just as big to stand out and their job is not easier in any way. IMHO of course.

    For sure, I do agree, but he did say ‘acceptable and attractive’ though and not ‘remarkable’. He also did specifically refer to ‘many, many more hobbiests’ and was not talking about those who ‘stand out’.

    For "acceptable", okay, fair enough. It is indeed much less painful to scroll through 20 feeble photos than listen to one crap "beat". For "attractive" though, I stand by my argument. :)

    I do agree. I also find it interesting how people can respond so extremely negatively to sound as opposed to images. But at the same time you don’t get thousands of people writhing and bouncing together over an image. Powerful stuff when it clicks with the right people.

  • If you don’t know about photography, you can still point and click, run it through some filters, and the end result is pleasing to the people that are friends or follow a person. Not to mention that a huge chunk of taking a picture is the thing you take a picture of, or shoot a video of. Funny, silly stuff is rampant on Tik Tok simply because it’s funny. The human eye-to-brain-stimulus-processing is receptive to many different things to make a connection to your feelings, whether those feelings are happy, sad, angry, etc.

    As for music, the ear-to-brain path is much more critical. It is difficult to produce something that is appealing to many, simply because you have to build all of the components of that “musical picture”, if you will, by hand. There’s not something you can walk up to, snap an audio picture of it, run it through some processing in an app, and have it turn into something a decent number of people want to hear. When you write music, you are painting or drawing that audio picture and it is very hard to do and get a pleasing result. People aren’t interested in spending that much time doing it because when they start, they suck at it. It takes too much energy and effort to get good. You aren’t going to be some regular person and go “oh wow, AUM/NS2/BM3/Cubase/etc, so shiney” and then they start posting music that is beloved be all. Not gonna happen.

    For the regular person, It is easier to create a picture/video that people want to see than it is music that people want to hear.

    If you are already a musician, then you’ve shrunk down your customer base tremendously and now it has to be better than what they are already using. I see people in this site that are like “ill never go back to desktop”, but there are legions of musicians that already own desktops and laptops and have workflows that work for them. Why switch? Personally I’m moving back toward the desktop and I’ve been having more fun. No more pain and suffering to figure out how to hook things up with workarounds. I just drop the plug-ins in and they work.

    At this point in the mobile music space, it’s a niche market because it’s a niche market. Take out the hardcore mobile music people on this site (who are great folks!) and you are left with people that just want to write music and get on with it.

    These are my personal views and not facts, obviously, so agreement is totally optional :lol:

  • edited September 2021

    @drez
    If you don’t know about photography music, you can still point and click, run it through some filters auv3 midi generators and shimmer verbs, and the end result is pleasing to the people that are friends or follow a person.

    ☝️Ambient 🎶

  • edited September 2021
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @ehehehe said:
    This. Also sampling is almost like snapping photos of beautiful visual objects. So much forum member music (not only on here!) sounds like you describe, with low complexity arrangements, random sound selection, inharmonics and Never Enough Reverb / FX. Sure there's some gold nuggets around, the only thing rarer being constructive criticism of said "tracks".

    Nailed it.

  • edited September 2021

    @tahiche said:

    @drez
    If you don’t know about photography music, you can still point and click, run it through some filters auv3 midi generators and shimmer verbs, and the end result is pleasing to the people that are friends or follow a person.

    ☝️Ambient 🎶

    Precisely this, mate. This whole (I'm sure unintentional) consideration of photography as something potentially easier and lighter than other art forms always reminds me of the following anecdote.

    A photographer is sitting with a loose group of friends and one of them, a cook, looks at some of his photographs and really likes them. He bursts out, in totally good nature and without any self-awareness: "You must have a great camera!" A few months later, the cook guy hosts the party and he prepares an excellent dish. The photographer high-fives him and says: "You must have a great frying pan!"

    @ehehehe said:
    This. Also sampling is almost like snapping photos of beautiful visual objects. So much forum member music (not only on here!) sounds like you describe, with low complexity arrangements, random sound selection, inharmonics and Never Enough Reverb / FX. Sure there's some gold nuggets around, the only thing rarer being constructive criticism of said "tracks".

    🎖️

  • I'm a shutterbug, I love photography. I've worked as hard at it as I do music. I'm up at dawn, out on the water, up in the middle of the night waiting for sunrise. I travel far to get shots. I've gone through one camera body in the last few years, over 100,000 shots, and I am on to another. Still, when I show people my photos they always say, "Wow you must have a nice camera!" Every time. haha

    The lesson here is do what you love and keep it to yourself.

    As far as Apple goes, of course they don't care about musicians. They are a corporation whose sole reason for existing is to make money, profit before people always.

  • @tahiche said:

    @drez
    If you don’t know about photography music, you can still point and click, run it through some filters auv3 midi generators and shimmer verbs, and the end result is pleasing to the people that are friends or follow a person.

    ☝️Ambient 🎶

    But now you’ve limited yourself to people that like ambient, which is literally nobody I know. I don’t hang out with anybody that listens to ambient. AND you have to have a person that DOES like ambient take the initiative and say hmm, I wonder if I could make some of this ambient stuff and then continue to go down the path of figuring out how to wire about midi generators and shimmer verbs to make some sort of music that even THAT person enjoys. I submit that most people that suck at something stop doing it very early on. Only the truly committed keep going.

    Those committed people are on this forum. That’s pretty much it. Because it is NOT easy to setup for somebody that has no idea how to create music. It can only cost them 30 dollars to get rolling, but the barrier to entry is knowing how to do it and care enough to find out.

    This is why it is still a niche market.

  • @drez said:

    @tahiche said:

    @drez
    If you don’t know about photography music, you can still point and click, run it through some filters auv3 midi generators and shimmer verbs, and the end result is pleasing to the people that are friends or follow a person.

    ☝️Ambient 🎶

    But now you’ve limited yourself to people that like ambient, which is literally nobody I know. I don’t hang out with anybody that listens to ambient. AND you have to have a person that DOES like ambient take the initiative and say hmm, I wonder if I could make some of this ambient stuff and then continue to go down the path of figuring out how to wire about midi generators and shimmer verbs to make some sort of music that even THAT person enjoys. I submit that most people that suck at something stop doing it very early on. Only the truly committed keep going.

    Those committed people are on this forum. That’s pretty much it. Because it is NOT easy to setup for somebody that has no idea how to create music. It can only cost them 30 dollars to get rolling, but the barrier to entry is knowing how to do it and care enough to find out.

    This is why it is still a niche market.

    Those people need to buy Moodscaper!

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