Searching for the best cello

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Bruques said:

@HotStrange said:

@Bruques said:

@HotStrange said:

@LeftyChris said:

@HotStrange said:
Also worth checking out Mini Orchestra and iSymphonic. They’re more focused on the entire ensemble but you can mute the sounds and play the Cello individually.

I had never heard of Mini Orchestra or the developer who made it. What do you think of their Just Piano?

I really love Just Piano (and all their other apps). Outside of Pianoteq, I think Just Piano is the best piano we have on iOS. And the price is fantastic.

I also very much like Pure Piano. If I didn't have Pianoteq I would mostly be using Pure.

I have Pianoteq but I went with the Hohner collection and classical guitar, so Just Piano has become my go-to. Pure Piano is definitely still very good though.

Good choices I also got the clav so I can do my best Stevie W impressions

Speaking of Stevie, I’m really looking forward to the swam harmonica. I will definitely be buying that one.

LeftyChris

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Luxthor said:

@Edward_Alexander said:
My go to for realistic cello is the GeoSWAM cello in GeoShred. The standalone SWAM Cello app has many more options from what I can see, but to me, the GeoSWAM version sounds so good, that I’ve never had a need, nor an urge to purchase anything else.

I honestly don’t think I’ll EVER need to buy another “Cello” app. GeoSWAM Cello = cello shopping done!

There’s a handful of other GeoSWAM instruments I feel the same way about also, and that’s the GeoSWAM violin, and my single most favorite iPadOS solo instrument of all time; my trusty GeoSWAM Tenor Saxophone 🎷

Now string sections where you’d have multiple string instrument ensembles, and/or full orchestra string sections, there may be better options, but for solo instruments, GeoSWAM is the way to go. This is all of course, in my personal opinion. I’ve made my recommendations.

Darn, you reseted my research back to the starting position. 🫣 I’m using Velocity Keyboard and planning to purchase few SWAM bundles. This will be used and automated in Logic for iOS. So, do you believe GeoSWAM will be a better choice, then?

I have all the GeoSWAMs and a number of standalone SWAMs. The standalones have more options, but the extra options’ utility is marginal for me. The real measure is how well you can play or compose. If you want to spend less money, the GS version is really just as good 98% of the time.

I have several of the standalone SWAMs too but there is indeed also something to be said for the immediacy of GeoShred. You open it up and in 5 seconds you’re playing this amazing cello or violin sound. It’s just fantastic.

NeuM

@LeftyChris said:
@RedSkyLullaby

Sadly FingerFiddle is now pretty clearly abandonware, though thankfully it’s still useable. I wish the developer would sell it to someone who would want to keep developing it, or even just maintain it. It’s fine now but a few more iOS upgrades and it might not be.

It’s my understanding that the developer Matthew Demoucron (sp?) is now working for Sony and they’re using his knowledge of modeling for their own modeled musical instruments, which would explain the lack of updates.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@belldu said:
I have SWAM Violin and don't have a problem saying that on this thread as a bunch of people keep going on about Pianos.
I also have Swam Tenor Sax and Trumpet and they sound so much better than the Violin.
This is because coaxing the expressivity out of them feels easier.
I feel like I need to understand the Violin to a greater degree to get anything out of it.
I'd like to get a nice Cello too, I'm sure Swam has an excellent model, but I fear the same issue.

Many of the sampled Violins sound better with their baked in expressivity and articulation, and I'm wondering if I can develop a 'controller' in Mosaic to send some MIDI Ccs to Swam to add some vibrato and expression when I play a note on a keyboard.

So totally agree with comments above that Swam is probably the best but getting it to sound good is not easy without a dedicated controller unless you limit yourself to pizzicato :-)

Agreed. I wrote above: the wind models dominate the string models.

ErrkaPetti

@belldu said:
And I've just checked the iOS sales thread (why didn't I go there first today), and it looks like Swam have a sale on... its a real dilemma now, I want a Cello sound but can't get anything decent out of the Violon, so is it worth the money to be frustrated again with their cello....

Perhaps you could build a nice play surface for SWAM String instruments into 4Pockets Surface Builder app?

LeftyChris

@NeuM said:

@LeftyChris said:
@RedSkyLullaby

Sadly FingerFiddle is now pretty clearly abandonware, though thankfully it’s still useable. I wish the developer would sell it to someone who would want to keep developing it, or even just maintain it. It’s fine now but a few more iOS upgrades and it might not be.

It’s my understanding that the developer Matthew Demoucron (sp?) is now working for Sony and they’re using his knowledge of modeling for their own modeled musical instruments, which would explain the lack of updates.

Oh, I didn’t know that, very interesting. I wonder if he ever plans to get back to FingerFiddle - or if he’d even be allowed to by Sony. I assume that everything he does now must be property of Sony.

NeuM

@LeftyChris said:

@NeuM said:

@LeftyChris said:
@RedSkyLullaby

Sadly FingerFiddle is now pretty clearly abandonware, though thankfully it’s still useable. I wish the developer would sell it to someone who would want to keep developing it, or even just maintain it. It’s fine now but a few more iOS upgrades and it might not be.

It’s my understanding that the developer Matthew Demoucron (sp?) is now working for Sony and they’re using his knowledge of modeling for their own modeled musical instruments, which would explain the lack of updates.

Oh, I didn’t know that, very interesting. I wonder if he ever plans to get back to FingerFiddle - or if he’d even be allowed to by Sony. I assume that everything he does now must be property of Sony.

Very likely. Anything he created prior to him being hired by their company would not be their property, of course.

belldu

I do have GeoShred Control, and am now wondering whether Swam Cello (or Violin) in Geoshred are the same / a subset of the standalone variants?
This doesn't help with my desire to 'automate' vibrato and expression, but is GeoShred Control + standalone Swam Cello equally as good as buying it all through Geoshred Pro (from my starting place a more expensive prospect).

LeftyChris

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@belldu said:
I have SWAM Violin and don't have a problem saying that on this thread as a bunch of people keep going on about Pianos.
I also have Swam Tenor Sax and Trumpet and they sound so much better than the Violin.
This is because coaxing the expressivity out of them feels easier.
I feel like I need to understand the Violin to a greater degree to get anything out of it.
I'd like to get a nice Cello too, I'm sure Swam has an excellent model, but I fear the same issue.

Many of the sampled Violins sound better with their baked in expressivity and articulation, and I'm wondering if I can develop a 'controller' in Mosaic to send some MIDI Ccs to Swam to add some vibrato and expression when I play a note on a keyboard.

So totally agree with comments above that Swam is probably the best but getting it to sound good is not easy without a dedicated controller unless you limit yourself to pizzicato :-)

Agreed. I wrote above: the wind models dominate the string models.

The SWAM flute in GeoShred is great too. I put on a drone app and improvise over it with the flute and pretend I know how to play Hindustani music (I don’t).

mjcouche

Let’s not forget Pen2Bow

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pen2bow/id1358113198

Makes any app a bit more expressive.

Luxthor

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Luxthor said:

@Edward_Alexander said:
My go to for realistic cello is the GeoSWAM cello in GeoShred. The standalone SWAM Cello app has many more options from what I can see, but to me, the GeoSWAM version sounds so good, that I’ve never had a need, nor an urge to purchase anything else.

I honestly don’t think I’ll EVER need to buy another “Cello” app. GeoSWAM Cello = cello shopping done!

There’s a handful of other GeoSWAM instruments I feel the same way about also, and that’s the GeoSWAM violin, and my single most favorite iPadOS solo instrument of all time; my trusty GeoSWAM Tenor Saxophone 🎷

Now string sections where you’d have multiple string instrument ensembles, and/or full orchestra string sections, there may be better options, but for solo instruments, GeoSWAM is the way to go. This is all of course, in my personal opinion. I’ve made my recommendations.

Darn, you reseted my research back to the starting position. 🫣 I’m using Velocity Keyboard and planning to purchase few SWAM bundles. This will be used and automated in Logic for iOS. So, do you believe GeoSWAM will be a better choice, then?

... The real measure is how well you can play or compose ...

That's why my research is on the starting position. Today, I'm going to buy one SWAM instrument and test everything I need to test before I decide what is the best option for me. But forum members' experience helped me a lot! Thank you! 😎

In the meantime, I discovered that GeoShred has issues in Logic iOS on MIDI slots communicating with SWAM instruments. It was 2 weeks ago, I don't know if it is patched or not yet.

Luxthor

We are all spoiled with MPE and touch expressions on the iPad surface, but for some reason (hope it’s not GAS) I want to buy expression pedal for SWAM, like EV-30. This will be connected to my KeyLab61 mkii. Any advice from those experienced with similar setup? Planning to use it on some wind instruments and more.

This video sparked my interest:

This one is for Cello, just to stay in the thread spirit.

unlink

@Luxthor said:
We are all spoiled with MPE and touch expressions on the iPad surface, but for some reason (hope it’s not GAS) I want to buy expression pedal for SWAM, like [EV-30]

I just ordered this https://www.boss.info/it/products/ev-1-wl/ which should be the new bluetooth version of the same pedal, looking forward to use it with SWAM Cello

Gavinski

Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

Luxthor

@unlink said:

@Luxthor said:
We are all spoiled with MPE and touch expressions on the iPad surface, but for some reason (hope it’s not GAS) I want to buy expression pedal for SWAM, like [EV-30]

I just ordered this https://www.boss.info/it/products/ev-1-wl/ which should be the new bluetooth version of the same pedal, looking forward to use it with SWAM Cello

Good info, 👍 Going to check out, bluetooth option is godsend!

MisplacedDevelopment

I seem to recall reading on here that an iRig BlueBoard + expression pedal combo was a cheapish way of getting a wireless expression pedal setup.

Luxthor

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

jo92346

@Luxthor said:
I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

way to go brother!

Gavinski

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

NeuM

@Gavinski said:

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

Remember there used to be a lot of reports of phone batteries swelling up, exploding and catching on fire? You don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because there are no user replaceable batteries. Turns out letting people improperly replace their own highly volatile lithium-ion batteries was a really bad idea.

Gavinski

@NeuM said:

@Gavinski said:

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

Remember there used to be a lot of reports of phone batteries swelling up, exploding and catching on fire? You don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because there are no user replaceable batteries. Turns out letting people improperly replace their own highly volatile lithium-ion batteries was a really bad idea.

Hmmm, there's a point. And it's very rare (but welcome) to hear you argue that the free market is not necessarily the best option! But I do think there are problems with this. There are still definitely fake apple batteries and certainly tons of fake android batteries etc floating around on the 3rd hand repair market, which a lot of people do unwittingly end up getting. Instead of making batteries hard to replace a better solution would be to find and punish people creating and knowingly distributing and installing fake batteries.

Chances are these people are also engaged in other kinds of fraudulent activities too.

espiegel123

@MisplacedDevelopment said:
I seem to recall reading on here that an iRig BlueBoard + expression pedal combo was a cheapish way of getting a wireless expression pedal setup.

Blueboard + expression pedal was cheaper than the Roland wireless pedal the last time I checked. The Blueboard can host 2 pedals.

espiegel123

@NeuM said:

@Gavinski said:

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

Remember there used to be a lot of reports of phone batteries swelling up, exploding and catching on fire? You don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because there are no user replaceable batteries. Turns out letting people improperly replace their own highly volatile lithium-ion batteries was a really bad idea.

These problems aren’t inherent in non-replaceable batteries. Apple does it to create the smallest possible package. Making components user-replaceable generally reduces how compactly components can be packed.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@Gavinski said:

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

Remember there used to be a lot of reports of phone batteries swelling up, exploding and catching on fire? You don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because there are no user replaceable batteries. Turns out letting people improperly replace their own highly volatile lithium-ion batteries was a really bad idea.

These problems aren’t inherent in non-replaceable batteries. Apple does it to create the smallest possible package. Making components user-replaceable generally reduces how compactly components can be packed.

Nope.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210323

NeuM

@Gavinski said:

@NeuM said:

@Gavinski said:

@Luxthor said:

@Gavinski said:
Regular keyboard + expression pedal is how the Audio Modeling guys play these. Of course that only works because these are monophonic. But maybe a better way for some 'normal' keyboard players to play these than having to get used to playing a real mpe keyboard. Not sure. Of course, the regular keyboard + expression pedal will not help you when playing true polyphonic mpe instruments,

I'm an electro armchair musician, going to use and abuse those instruments in an unintended direction till even original authors won’t recognise the sound any more. And it’s just beginning. 😎

Right on haha. Glad to see also that this is a Bluetooth accessory which takes AA batteries instead of having an internal battery like the Roli stuff. Apple have a lot to answer for in starting the trend for non-replaceable or hard to replace batteries. The impact of that on the environment, as well as people's wallets, hardly bears thinking about.

Remember there used to be a lot of reports of phone batteries swelling up, exploding and catching on fire? You don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because there are no user replaceable batteries. Turns out letting people improperly replace their own highly volatile lithium-ion batteries was a really bad idea.

Hmmm, there's a point. And it's very rare (but welcome) to hear you argue that the free market is not necessarily the best option! But I do think there are problems with this. There are still definitely fake apple batteries and certainly tons of fake android batteries etc floating around on the 3rd hand repair market, which a lot of people do unwittingly end up getting. Instead of making batteries hard to replace a better solution would be to find and punish people creating and knowingly distributing and installing fake batteries.

Chances are these people are also engaged in other kinds of fraudulent activities too.

I'm not sure if it's an argument against free markets so much as it is about a company reducing liability and risk. They were getting sued left and right by people putting used batteries in their phones and then blaming Apple. I clearly remember the cases. And there were also a lot of stories of people using crummy third party chargers and then exposing the phones to water, causing fires and explosions. Never underestimate the capacity of users to do something dumb or dangerous with their consumer products.

espiegel123

@NeuM: Why nope? Nothing in that linked article contradicts what I posted. That post is about replacing batteries in devices designed to not be user-servicable. It has nothing to do with whether devices designed to have user replaceable batteries are inherently prone to issues. My comment had to do with the latter. Perhaps I was not clear.

Let me restate: if a device is designed to have user-replaceable batteries that does not mean it will be prone to issues of expanding batteries, etc.

Trying to replace batteries in products like an iPhone or iPad that are designed to NOT be user-serviceable is prone to problems.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:
@NeuM: Why nope? Nothing in that linked article contradicts what I posted. That post is about replacing batteries in devices designed to not be user-servicable. It has nothing to do with whether devices designed to have user replaceable batteries are inherently prone to issues. My comment had to do with the latter. Perhaps I was not clear.

Let me restate: if a device is designed to have user-replaceable batteries that does not mean it will be prone to issues of expanding batteries, etc.

Trying to replace batteries in products like an iPhone or iPad that are designed to NOT be user-serviceable is prone to problems.

You said "Apple does it to create the smallest possible package."

While that might be a secondary effect of eliminating a user replaceable battery, it's not their stated primary reason.

Luxthor

Suite for Solo Cello, First Movement by Gaspar Cassado, played on SWAM Cello

Marvelous! 🤩

espiegel123

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
@NeuM: Why nope? Nothing in that linked article contradicts what I posted. That post is about replacing batteries in devices designed to not be user-servicable. It has nothing to do with whether devices designed to have user replaceable batteries are inherently prone to issues. My comment had to do with the latter. Perhaps I was not clear.

Let me restate: if a device is designed to have user-replaceable batteries that does not mean it will be prone to issues of expanding batteries, etc.

Trying to replace batteries in products like an iPhone or iPad that are designed to NOT be user-serviceable is prone to problems.

You said "Apple does it to create the smallest possible package."

While that might be a secondary effect of eliminating a user replaceable battery, it's not their stated primary reason.

That article does not discuss all the reasons that the devices were designed to not have user-serviceable parts.

Gavinski

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
@NeuM: Why nope? Nothing in that linked article contradicts what I posted. That post is about replacing batteries in devices designed to not be user-servicable. It has nothing to do with whether devices designed to have user replaceable batteries are inherently prone to issues. My comment had to do with the latter. Perhaps I was not clear.

Let me restate: if a device is designed to have user-replaceable batteries that does not mean it will be prone to issues of expanding batteries, etc.

Trying to replace batteries in products like an iPhone or iPad that are designed to NOT be user-serviceable is prone to problems.

You said "Apple does it to create the smallest possible package."

While that might be a secondary effect of eliminating a user replaceable battery, it's not their stated primary reason.

Frankly, I would be careful of trusting what their ‘stated’ reasons for anything are. Their motives are usually their own profit above anything, but that’s hardly the way they’re going to market new product launches, or things like removing the headphone socket.