odd time in patterning3 - playhead position

Zsolt

Good evening everyone
I am struggling with …. whatchamacallit … the global playhead default of patterning 3

Patterning, when changing patterns, sticks to the global position of the playhead. That is the default.

But maybe - maybe someone has an idea how to force patterning to start a pattern from the beginning when triggered?

espiegel123

@Zsolt said:
Good evening everyone
There is a bug in Loopy pro: it counts four beats per measure no matter what the time signature is anyway. And this even increases the pain of programming patterns of different lengths within Patterning 3.
In the end, Patterning, when changing patterns, sticks to the global position of the playhead. That is the default.
But maybe - maybe someone has an idea how to force patterning to start a pattern from the beginning when triggered?

What exactly do you mean by “ it counts four beats per measure no matter what the time signature”. You must have a particular context in mind that is being left out of your question.

Zsolt

Yes, sorry, That is related to the quantisation - LP counts four beats to perform actions, even when time signature is odd. It was actually you who told me that I probably have found a bug 😄

espiegel123

@Zsolt said:
Yes, sorry, That is related to the quantisation - LP counts four beats to perform actions, even when time signature is odd. It was actually you who told me that I probably have found a bug 😄

The context applies to quantization and delays in action timing. Let’s be careful not to give the impression that time signature is ignored everywhere.

If you can give more details of the specifics you want that would be helpful.

espiegel123

@Zsolt are you using loopy pro 2,0 or 1.1.24 (the App Store version)

espiegel123

@espiegel123 said:

@Zsolt said:
Yes, sorry, That is related to the quantisation - LP counts four beats to perform actions, even when time signature is odd. It was actually you who told me that I probably have found a bug 😄

The context applies to quantization and delays in action timing. Let’s be careful not to give the impression that time signature is ignored everywhere.

If you can give more details of the specifics you want that would be helpful.

Specifics will help as it may be something that has been fixed.

Zsolt

I am using beta 2.0

And this is what I’m doing:

I have a piece in 7/8.
There are two different patterns programmed in Pattterning 3 to switch between parts of improvisation. They are both 2 bars long (14 beats, that is 56 sixteenths)
A third outro pattern is 8 bars (56 beats, that is 224 sixteenths).
Patterning seems to pick the longest pattern as global reference. So when I switch from one of the short patterns to the outro, the app starts that wherever that global play head position is. Does that make sense? I wish I could tell Patterning to forget that global position and start that pattern from the very beginning.

espiegel123

@Zsolt said:
I am using beta 2.0

And this is what I’m doing:

I have a piece in 7/8.
There are two different patterns programmed in Pattterning 3 to switch between parts of improvisation. They are both 2 bars long (14 beats, that is 56 sixteenths)
A third outro pattern is 8 bars (56 beats, that is 224 sixteenths).
Patterning seems to pick the longest pattern as global reference. So when I switch from one of the short patterns to the outro, the app starts that wherever that global play head position is. Does that make sense? I wish I could tell Patterning to forget that global position and start that pattern from the very beginning.

Please create and upload a simple demonstration project and post a screen recoding slowly showing the set up and demonstration of the problem

Zsolt

This is a video to show how it works. While dummy clip is in second bar I press start for the groove. While groove is in second bar I press start for the outro. You will notice on the little white number within Patterning 3 that it doesn’t start the outro on one - in this case it starts on bar 3 of 8

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kl2scu848cagraque85jx/outro.mp4?rlkey=v9ygydbmqn7b76w444b6hai43&st=9edyats5&dl=0

See the little number in patterning 3 in the screenshot

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wn5snp0awibznn1md1vwf/250701.zip?rlkey=v2241bk52s8jomxcejizxble3&st=yk8xjr7d&dl=0

And this is the project file as zip

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ohgq5i8hpvkmfw40khqe7/green.zip?rlkey=s65vih7kepj7aba2y02mw496k&st=dhxu3ayz&dl=0

Thanks for support

espiegel123

@Zsolt : it seems the graphic you tried to upload didn’t upload

espiegel123

@Zsolt : could you post a screen recording made on the iPad rather than taken with a camera. It helps to be able to see loopy pro’s clock and the correct orientation. It would also help if before the demonstration, you show the setup...i.e. the actions in the widget and the details.

espiegel123

@Zsolt : i am not understanding your description of what is happening. I don't know what you mean by dummy clip.

The way your button is set up, the first action fires on the next multiple of 4 beats and the second action is performed 8 bars later.

What exactly is the desired behavior?

Try to describe what you want to happen to someone who is opening your project for the first time.

Zsolt

So I’m really not used to this, and I had to figure out how to do that. I’m even having trouble with the screenshots because they are just too many megabytes. …..

But now I have the screen recording, please tell, if that is enough to see. I was actually hoping that it records my voice too just through the microphone, but that doesn’t work

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wqrf6ekslmbc4hrdxnbw8/250701-screenrec-LP.mov?rlkey=2v3pdasqtnhw6q78dp94su850&st=zrmytefy&dl=0

The point is only that by switching from one pattern to the outro pattern, which is eight bars long, it starts in bar five (in this case, or wherever the global position of the playhead is). I would need to start the outro pattern at its first bar, because the eight bars are not just a groove but an exact rhythmic accompaniment of a melody.

espiegel123

@Zsolt : change the quantization from 4 beats to 1 bar and I think you will get the result you are after.

espiegel123

This is the result i get if i I set the quantization to 1 bar rather than 4 beats.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/025uFFTh_3Ye7yfAuhL3pWXzw

Zsolt

I already adjusted that mistake of the four beats. I set it to immediate - please see in the screen recording. And no, it still does not do what I want, because Patterning has the default to stick to the current global playhead position. Originally my question was if there might be some workaround to force Patterning to start that pattern from its beginning.

Sorry for the hassle and thank you for your patience

espiegel123

@Zsolt said:
I already adjusted that mistake of the four beats. I set it to immediate - please see in the screen recording. And no, it still does not do what I want, because Patterning has the default to stick to the current global playhead position. Originally my question was if there might be some workaround to force Patterning to start that pattern from its beginning.

Sorry for the hassle and thank you for your patience

I am unclear on what the video is demonstrating or the precise behavior you want. The initial issue you brought up some time ago was caused by loopy pro not correctly calculating bars when the meter wasn’t 4/4.

Please describe precisely what you want to happen.

I.e. “when I press x, I want y to happen. When I do A, I want B to happen. What happens now is that when I press x…..,happens”

You say “please see the screen recording” but I don't understand what you want to happen and the clock isn’t visible.

espiegel123

@Zsolt : your initial post in this thread says that Loopy Pro counts 4 beats per measure regardless of the time signature. That problem was fixed.

Zsolt

So I think it is time to apologise - I’m sorry for the confusion.
I m going back to square one now, and I simplified everything to the max.

New screen recording:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/82ee52p1nqtmjcpl6j1h2/250701-pattern-switching.mov?rlkey=dw5dshx5xs1xn1vi13pfiswmz&st=meflbpub&dl=0

In Patterning 3 there are 2 patterns, “groove”, 2 bars, and “end”, 8 bars.
In LP there are two buttons that start these two patterns, and timings are set as immediate.
When I start the “groove”, you can see the number in that little white square in the circle of patterning counting the two bars.
Now when I press the second button to start the “end” pattern, I’d need to start at bar 1 of the pattern - but you can see the number in that little white square that it takes off at bar 5.
This happens because patterning sticks to the progress of the global playhead, as it is set by the longest pattern, as I assume.

So nothing wrong with Patterning and nothing wrong with Loopy pro - my initial question only was, if maybe someone knew a workaround to somehow force patterning to start patterns at the beginning.

I tried to be as clear as I can, and hope that it is understandable now.

espiegel123

@Zsolt said:
So I think it is time to apologise - I’m sorry for the confusion.
I m going back to square one now, and I simplified everything to the max.

New screen recording:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/82ee52p1nqtmjcpl6j1h2/250701-pattern-switching.mov?rlkey=dw5dshx5xs1xn1vi13pfiswmz&st=meflbpub&dl=0

In Patterning 3 there are 2 patterns, “groove”, 2 bars, and “end”, 8 bars.
In LP there are two buttons that start these two patterns, and timings are set as immediate.
When I start the “groove”, you can see the number in that little white square in the circle of patterning counting the two bars.
Now when I press the second button to start the “end” pattern, I’d need to start at bar 1 of the pattern - but you can see the number in that little white square that it takes off at bar 5.
This happens because patterning sticks to the progress of the global playhead, as it is set by the longest pattern, as I assume.

So nothing wrong with Patterning and nothing wrong with Loopy pro - my initial question only was, if maybe someone knew a workaround to somehow force patterning to start patterns at the beginning.

I tried to be as clear as I can, and hope that it is understandable now.

@Zsolt : Perhaps you can edit the initial post to correct the mention of a loopy pro bug.

What happens in patterning when you switch between the same presets by hand when Loopy Pro’s clock is running?

This sounds like it might be more a question about Patterning 3 and how it follows host clock and changes pattern in relation to the host clock.

Are you wanting to de-couple Patterning’s clock cycle from the host’s?

Zsolt

@Zsolt : Perhaps you can edit the initial post to correct the mention of a loopy pro bug.

Yes of course - already done

What happens in patterning when you switch between the same presets by hand when Loopy Pro’s clock is running?

the same

This sounds like it might be more a question about Patterning 3 and how it follows host clock and changes pattern in relation to the host clock.

I thought to post this here in the general app discussion. It actually behaves as Patterning is designed. The dev said so.

Are you wanting to de-couple Patterning’s clock cycle from the host’s?

I don’t know what this means and I wouldn’t know how to do it – but I dare to say that they have to stay in sync somehow. I was just hoping to learn some midi firing charm to interrupt Patternings default logic 😁

espiegel123

@Zsolt : out-of-curiosity, what is the use case?

Do I understand correctly that what you want is to have the host and patterning to use different 1’s. I.e. you want your have the host and patterning to both be in 7 but you want Patterning’s bars to start at times not lined up
with the host’s.

Zsolt

???

I think I have to realize that it still wasn’t clear enough. Although it is very easy indeed.

No special use case here. I only want to start a clip that is multiple bars long and it doesn’t start at the beginning. That’s all it is.