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Drum app for live use with pedals?
Also posted on iPad musician Facebook group. I have a very specific question about iPad drum apps. I own most of the usual suspects: patterning, drum perfect, rock drum machine, drumjam, different drummer (yes, I have a problem, but those in glass houses...). I'm going to be gigging again soon as a piano/vocalist. I used to use an Alesis SR16 drum machine as I could set the tempo, start/stop and trigger fills with two pedals. I'd like to replace it with my iPad and an app as the Alesis is ancient and very time-consuming to program, but can an app replace it? I prefer the open ended, looping nature of a drum machine as it gives me the flexibility to add an extra chorus if I need to or getting everyone clapping etc. In summary, can an iPad replace a dedicated drum machine with pedals controlling start/stop, fills etc?
Comments
Can't see why not. You only need to find an app that you can control those functions by midi. I know funkbox does it. It's in the manual at the end. Star-stop, pattern select. You would to check available drum machines and read the pdf for midi functions as they are not mentioned in the app itself.
You could probably try a step-sequencer app that triggers a drum machine's sounds also. You might have more flexibility in that regard. Modstep that is coming out soon seems really promising in that regard.
I wonder if genome sequencing drumjam would do the trick? Our genome sequencing something? I don't have genome yet, but I sequenced drum jam with pro midi and it worked well.
Thanks for the thoughts...I think there's a gap here for a Dev to adapt an existing app to use Bluetooth pedals in the same way the SR16 does. Rock drum machine is the obvious candidate, perhaps I should drop him a line. I have no idea how complicated something like that might be to implement.
I wouldn't hold your breath with Rock Drum Machine getting any MIDI implementation...
I'm not sure which drum apps currently have bluetooth MIDI enabled, but as @paradiddle said, it could be midi assignable for the apps which do. DrumJam may already have that functionality.
Also note that FunkBox supports MIDI Out for notes so if the sounds aren't what you're looking for but the MIDI implementation for start/stop/pattern change works well for you, you could point it at another sound source. You can also make your own drum kits in Funkbox via sample import though it's a little laborious.
My first thought when reading you post was "Rock Drum Machine maybe?". I think sending him a message detailing the way in which you used your SR is a good idea.
Totally agree with you @iansainsbury that if there isn't currently an app that does this there orta be.
For those unfamiliar with it: the SR really was(is) a clever set up as an accompaniment box. Every pattern is actually 4 patterns: Part A, Part B, Part A-Fill, Part B-Fill. In a situation like Ian is describing you'd do something like: A=verse beat, B=chorus beat and then fills to switch between them. So, if you're on beat B and hit Fill it will play the fill through the end and switch back to A. Rock out on A for a while, hit 'fill' again to switch back to B.... You can trigger the fill via MIDI or simple external switch pedal (only need one since "Fill" means "play the current part's fill and toggle to the other part").
Interestingly, and very practical for live situations when playing other instruments, Fills are actually the same length as their A and B counterparts (well, I think A and B can be different lengths but their fill compliments are always the same length). This means that you can hit Fill at anytime during the current pattern and know that when the current pattern is finished you'll get the fill and the patterns switch—meaning you don't need to time hitting Fill perfectly while you're singing/playing guitar/trying move your mic a bit/reading the lyrics... Usually, the fill pattern itself would just be a copy of the main pattern with some amount of actual drum 'fill' at the end. Also clever: if you put a crash at the top of your Fill pattern it wouldn't trigger it until the start of the next A/B pattern.
Or, if you're doing something more jammy where there isn't so much of a verse/chorus structure, you could use all four as subtle variations of the same rhythm hitting 'fill' basically at random to keep things interesting.
Anyway, not at all the perfect set up for someone doing electronic music or banging out beats or whatever but really kind of a perfect 'working musician needing a drum machine for accompaniment' set up.
I still own and occasionally use my SR16 (an absolute CHAMP with MIDI Clock) but have definitely been spoiled by iOS and desktop drum machines as far as programming ease and sound selection/variation.
Thanks for the post, @syrupcore, I would be happy to carry on using the SR16, but trigger some of the excellent iPad sounds, if only it wasn't such a *€$%%***+¥** to program...someone develop an app I can use to program it, please!
Think it would easier to glom that pattern/fill/pattern/fill workflow methodology onto an existing app. Maybe offer your SR16 in trade to an existing drum app developer to sponsor adding the feature?
Pedals - using bluetooth pedals is the equivalent of using a Bluetooth QWERTY keyboard. Like all the Airturn bluetooth pedals do is show up as a keyboard that only makes arrow-key signals. Therefore, you could also save a pile of $ and just use any crappy bluetooth QWERTY keyboard unless you really need to only use your feet.
Using any sort of wired-MIDI solution will be a bit more reliable (and more robust because bluetooth accessories can only control the foreground app whereas MIDI (even MIDI over Bluetooth) can work on background apps.
2 Quick solutions that come to mind:
BeatMaker2 would also work by giving you the ability to mute/unmute different tracks via MIDI control while a song is playing.
MIDI control of MiMix would let you control the on/off flow of any app running its sound through the mixer.
Should be a relatively easy thing to replace the Alesis.
Thanks, @boberto, excellent info. Hope you don't mind, but I've pasted your response on the Facebook iPad musician group as there's a bit of interest over there too.
@boberto as far as I know qwerty keyboards will only work in the foreground so no screen access. I.e. Blueboard has a dedicated background app that does the switchboard job.
Didn't know about dedicated Blueboard app for background switching.
I agree with you that bluetooth only controls foreground apps and I attempted to say that above, but I don't think Bluetooth-MIDI connections have this limitation?
iansainsbury, thanks for initiating this. I have been in pursuit of this for a while and keep coming up short. I like the Drum Beats + app (metronome) but it could be so much more if they included a intro, fill 1, fill 2 and ending button to the screen and have the ability to link to a bluetooth set of pedals or keyboard. I sent an email to ninebuzz (developer) and have not heard back. Although I am not a programmer, this seems to me to be a very easy thing to do. I found on another forum someone asking for an app equivalent to BeatBuddy http://mybeatbuddy.com/. This is ultimately what I am looking for but in a IOS platform.
I'm looking for the same thing as well.
One possibility is using the midi implementation in DrumJam.
Saving your own presets and then starting/stopping them and using the randomize loop feature you could create some variation.
I've written to Jesse about a fill feature. He seems receptive.
I think that the dev who creates an app similar to the BeatBuddy and allows the importing of midi loops and midi out to any of the fine drumb apps for great sounds, would really meet a need ande have lots of takers.
There are TONS of free midi loops out there, and tons more for sale.
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I know that it's not much help because no Midi In. But I use Patterning in much the way @syrupcore describes.
You can quickly set up a few different patterns that are variations (eg more or less intense) and move between them instantly using the pattern switch buttons.
What's more, these pattern switch buttons are on ABremote so if you had a spare hand perhaps ABremote might be an option instead of a pedal?
Can't you just use an iRig pro and any midi controller; McMillen or even an old Behringer fcb to start stop and or fill any ol drum app???
Also I thought this was about running drum apps through pedals so a reverse of that would be apps through the iRig into pedals into a mixer or amp... I run my drum apps into my pedals and a Peavey Mark IV and 2x15 for best results...
@Cassetteur Do you know of "any ol'" drumb app which has a "fill" feature and midi controls to go from part A to part B ETC?
That's the trouble. There are plenty of midi pedals and even a few apps which take midi in, but no apps, that we can find, which allow you to play a particular pattern, then fill in to the next pattern.
Another option guys is using MidiBand but muting all of the other parts in a style and just using the drum track. Yamaha .sty files usually have several sections and fills between sections, so there's enough material.
That's a good idea and it is similar but not quite the same experience. The way the SR works you only need one 'pattern switch' button (which could be a simple foot pedal). Hitting it triggers the fill pattern and at the end of the fill goes to the alternate pattern. Hit it again when you're ready and it triggers the alternate pattern's fill and goes back to the main pattern.
@syrupcore - yep. Sorry. I do get the difference. The SR sounds great like that.
I just meant that I effectively use patterning a bit like that because I can have:
A - A2 - B - B2
set up with the 2s being more like fills and then move with ease between all 4 patterns in pattering very quickly.
In reality I create about 3 times this number of patterns and then flick around in realtime creating my own unique patterns throughout.
Gotta love Patterning.
Hmm, now you got me thinking. Seems to me that this could probably be recreated with a) a drum machine app that accepts program changes and b) a little bit of programming in something like MIDI Designer.
That is presuming one of the MIDI controller apps supports this. If not, pretty sure this could be done with MIDI Flow by mapping some remote CC trigger to send program changes. @JohannesD am I full of it? If not, could you spell out how to do it?
From what I've read the iMaschine 2 will do the pattern switching and fill type stuff... I haven't tried it or checked the midi specs but it's one of the new features...
@syrupcore
IElectribe lets you send a normal cc to change patterns. Genome can be set up (via its automation lanes) to send any cc value you like. Quantised to the bar (or 2 bars etc). So that would give you the quantise bit.
But the problem is how to increment up the cc value 4 steps and then loop back round. I'm not sure how you'd do that.
Looks like MIDI Designer can do it.
So you'd make a slider that is limited to 4 steps and then step through it via the one button.
Alternative way would be to make a button group and then step through those values via super control. More on that here: http://mididesigner.com/qa/658/step-through-the-buttons-in-a-button-group
Kindof amazing that the sr16 and other drum machines were so popular, and yet noone's created an ios version.