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Drum Layering app on iOS : any recommendations
Hi, I've been looking for an app where you can layer and edit several drum audio files onto one virtual pad/track but can not find one
I own iMaschine, iMPC, Diode-108, DM-1, Beat Machine, Funkbox, on the sample based drum machines front.
While all these apps are pretty great to create beats, none of them offer the possibility of combining multiple samples nor possibility of editing them separately but on the same part
The only solution, not really one, is to do the layering on different pads/parts/tracks, which reduces total amount of free parts, and makes it a PITA to treat multiple pads/parts as one
Or more simply put, kinda like FXpansion Geist,
Any suggestions regarding existing apps that might do just that? or is drum layering still non existant on iOS?
Thanks
Nico
Comments
< broken-record >
How about Nanostudio?
< / broken-record >
It will not allow you to assign multiple sounds to a single pad but it will allow you to easily group and process them. Well, up to three mix groups per TRG instrument anyway.
You could also try using whatever sound source app you like and then making a pad set in something like MIDI Designer that actually sends as many different NOTE ON messages as you like. Or, set up your hardware pad controller to go through something like MIDIFlow and generate all the required notes from a single source note.
Using Nanostudio as an example, you could set up each set of stacked sounds on separate TRG instances and use a MIDIFlow preset to convert each pad on your 16 pad controller to send all 16 possible TRG notes to NS on a different MIDI channel per pad. That will allow you to stack from 1 to 16 sounds in any given TRG instance and always know that your pads are mapped to a specified TRG. In case it's not clear, by default, NS maps each instrument you insert to it's corresponding MIDI channel. With the single available IAP you get 15 instrument channels, each mapped from MIDI Channel 1 through 15 by default (or 2-16, don't remember).
or you could use the impc pro
keep your layers on different programs (which it has many)
it's super quick and easy to copy midi data all around... just highlight it and pinch to grab it
then spread it on the next track if you want the next program your layering to have the same sequenced data
do this for however many layers you want and when you're done, 'resample' it all to a new program-make layered kit
mute your prior layers and continue on without losing the workflow.
^ basically the same idea as the NS idea I posted above but iMPC Pro calls them "Programs" and NS calls them TRG Instances. You can also resample in NS. They are about the same price once you factor in the IAP for 15 tracks (vs 6) in NS.
If you don't own either, definitely watch some youtube videos or something. Oh, there's a free Win/Mac version of NanoStudio if you want to try it out first.
I'd say iMPC has a much better default drum library, sample slicing and IAA support for third party effects but NS beats it out with a lot of other features—namely much better sequencer/song mode, AudioBus support in and out, the Eden synth, built in effects and three audio busses per TRG. Plus, I think the whole thing is easier to grok if you've used other DAWs and don't have much experience with the classic MPC program/sequence workflow. iMPC is, presumably still being developed (breath holding not recommended though) while NS is essentially end-of-lifed at this point while he works on NS2. /2-cents
Thanks for the suggestions guys,
I will try the NS trick, I removed it because did not use it enough, worth checking out
iMPC I tend to dislike because of the closed environment ( no Audiobus, no Audioshare, Tabletop which I don't like at all )
it is still workarounds however...guess there is some wiggle room left for existing apps to be updated with this rather basic feature....or for new apps
regards
Are you trying to trigger these in real time or sequence them? If sequence, what sequencer are you using?
Well, a bit of both, as I explained, the workflow I am after is along the lines of Geist : so rt trigger with midi controller with computer, also possibility to sequence, but always from one pad/trigger/cell...whatever you can call it
Did you have something in mind?
I could mess around in Auria, and then bouncing the layered tracks as single audio files to re-use, but that would limit my options severely to be able to tweak a parameter inside the layer, it being flattened, and be quite time consuming.
Maybe Auria should license Geist! they already have fxpansion effects, that would solve that right there!
Ableton Live with Drum Rack and custom macros gets me there pretty quick as well on desktop...
regards
Nico
No, sorry. Can't think of anything beyond the trg per channel idea. Combine that with an evening setting up what amounts to Live drum rack macros—in the form of custom midi routing to send a single note to the correct trg as 8-16 notes—and it should work the exact same way.
Bonus: NS is very light on resources and has a nice set of built in effects.
I'm bumping this thread.
Can iMPC Pro layer samples?
Can the drum sampler in the new Modstep layer samples?
Any other new ones?
Thanks.
IMPC can't
Modstep can firing up multiple instances of the sampler
Try using KORG Gadget Bilbao load multiple instances and load different sample packs BEAST.
Never considered that, nice.
The new Arturia iSpark specifically has layering but my custom samples were glitchy with it. Some pads would just keep playing the factory sound at random.
Won't ispark do that up to 6 layers in stacked mode
Agreed, I also tried iSpark, and yes it does have stacked mode, but my custom samples were also a bit glitchy, and general importing and stuff was a bit fiddly. That's why in the meantime, looking for another app that can layer on iPad Pro.
here's an idea on how to layer on any drum machine that doesn't natively support layering, but can send and receive MIDI-
To do it in one pad, on one app (like the snare), you could set you drum machine to send MIDI notes out, then use a midi transformer app like midiflow, to filter out all of them, except the snare midi note #, then transpose the midi notes from the drum machine, say up one note # . Say the snare is midi note #38 (D1), you could transpose it up one to be note #39 (D#1). That gets routed back into the drum machine, so any time the snare pad is played, the midi note gets routed out and back in, and will play the pad next to it.
I also put a ton of samples from my computer into Gadget using IFunbox.so for me this works. I love to layer my drum sample to achieve solid kicks, snares and hats. The sky is the limit with this method you can add as many Bilbao instances as you like. You can even load the London Gadget which also has a ton of drum samples as well. another alternative would probably be to use Ableton link with Audiobus, that seems to work for some. I cannot do this as i am still using IOS 7.0. Also Gadget lets you import samples into Abu Dhabi Gadget and glitch them up. Hope this helps.
Nice suggestions here, haven't been searching more for some time - been spending some time with Geist lately on desktop, what a beast! combined with Live 9 it takes me very little time to achieve what I've been struggling to do on iOS regarding layering.
@cl516 : reading your post : could you expand a bit on the issue with iSpark & imported samples? I was about to give it a try , but if it's buggy, I'll pass, too many apps sold as betas nowadays.
Regarding Gadget, it looks like an option, though a pretty pricey one, especially with additional IAP's required to use external samples
Beat Machine?
Hi @RustiK , Beat Machine has no layering options..?
No?
My bad. It has been so long.
I must be mistaken.
Thanks for the correction
@saxophonick pm sent
I must be misunderstanding the question, otherwise someone should have answered DrumPerfect Pro months ago.
As I probably am misunderstanding what you are after I can anyways point out that in DrumPerfect Pro (DPP) can load each instrument/drum with 16 samples: 4 high left, 4 low left, 4 high right and 4 low right. DPP will then randomly select one high and one low sample for a hit and combine the two, meaning it will sound very real, like a live drummer.
Anyways, that is what DPP does, regardless of if it was what the original question asked for or not.
Yeah drum perfect pro is the only one that does it off the shelf. I do it in BM2 by duplicating the drum midi track and changing the adsr to suite, the internal drum profs have mostly the same layout and you can just flick between them easily. You might be able to trigger more than drum prog by using an external keyboard and assigning the different drum progs the midi channel ?
Hi Hellquist & Jose_Bee,
I checked out Drumperfect Pro & from the info pics on the appstore I can see there is a time shift setting per sample, which is a nice feature, I must have sent a FR to 5 drum/beat app devs at least to incorporate it, time will tell...
Drumperfect Pro seems to be geared towards realistic, human feel drum performances, no?
Jose_Bee : thx, yes I checked it out, BM2 has a layering option in it's integrated sampler, is BM2 glitchfree & stable in that regard? Does it play nice with other apps through Audiobus or IAA?
@hellquist what I mean by layering is :
I am not really after a human feel, more the kind of production beat sounds you can hear, well, pretty much allover the electronic production spectrum, from hiphop to house to you name it.
I guess this must still be a technique that is best done on a desktop DAW.
Ah, right, thanks for the explanation. Right, so as far as DPP goes, you can obviously have 16 samples per instrument as a maximum, but there is nothing stopping you from just adding a single sample either.
If you have one high sample and one low sample, it will add those two, but more importantly, if you hit the same instrument, with many samples, repeatedly DPP is the only drum machine that can make it sound slightly different for each of the hits on that pad/instrument. That is indeed cool if you want to get a human feel to it, as humans never really, truly, hit the drums exactly equally hard every time.
If you want the live drummer feeling (which you don't), more samples is good, and the idea from the developer is that you have 8 samples (per hand) in different velocities. If you on the other hand load samples with completely different sounds, it will still bake those together. Or you could load 3 completely different kick drums, or 8 samples with different panning, and it will use those. However, it will use one high and one low sample (if they are there), it will not use all 8 at the same time, and it will in fact not use more than two samples of any instrument slot at any time. Having said that though, I have started using DPP not only for human sounding drums, but also for electronic kits.
The reason, for me, is that I can work quite quickly in DPP now. It took some getting used to, but if you get past that threshold it is actually really quick. Also, one of the reasons (again, for me) why DPP is quick to work in is that you can link several hits (usually for a fill) which you then can set to play either every rotation, every second rotation, or every fourth rotation etc (whatever you decide), which means I can cut down the amount of patterns I need to create, combined with the awesome probability engine, which can be used for both "live drummer things" like flams/ghost hits, but also for more stochastic electronic things (depending on what samples you've loaded) that generate variation based on your rules.
You can also load whatever samples you wish into the instrument sample slots, which means the sky, or your fantasy/creativity, is the limit for what comes out. In DPP though, you can't change the pan/pitch etc of a sample within the app, it has to be done outside of DPP.
As mentioned in another thread regarding DPP you can also split the left/right hand samples and dedicate them to different instruments, which in effect means you can have twice as many instruments if you sequence the patterns within DPP (not sure how I would trigger a right-hand hit via an external sequencer though).
Having said all of that: yeah, I'm a fan of DPP, but indeed I think your use case wouldn't actually find DPP the best app for solving your problem, and true enough, this task might indeed be better suited for the desktop.
Bm2 can layer samples on keyboard "module" . But no mute groups unfortunately
@saxophonick
I guess the best pick could be: design your hits in ispark which has drum layering(being that a step sequenced drum machine you could also, in the meanwhile, have it playing a rough rythm idea; export single hits; import to DPP if you need to do proper programming
I recall there was some new drum app coming out soonish? KInd of an EZdrummer sort of thing? UMm, anyone recall? Uhhh logo looked polish metal and pretty? Was supposed to be expensive yet awesome. Drum app to end all drum apps or something?
i would use the impc pro, set up your drums on different programs, program some midi notes and copy the notes to each program/layer if you will so they'd all be triggered at the same time... each program/layer would then be able to be tweaked to taste via each pads fx settings etc.... the impc has an easy pinch/grab audio feature in it's timeline that makes real quick work of copying data and pasting elsewhere great for stuff like this.... then resample your kit when your done designing. You can see it at work in the following clip.
Yeah, Derek (Buddemeyer) and Blue Mangoo (iFretless series) have been working on it for a while. No release date for it though.
@hellquist : thanks for the extra info on DPP, I can see how it could be helpful for acoustic drums to have less gridlocked and stiff grooves
@mschenkel.it : thanks; do you use the iSpark succesfully with the 'Pad and samples import?
@kobamoto : thanks; I have the iMPC-not the Pro- and don't like it, for me the pretty closed system ( Audiocopy only, with its niggles, no Audiobus, Tabletop only ) on top of the already-pretty-closed iOS does not make a lot of sense.
I understand the position of Retronyms of providing a self-sufficient environment by only using their products, but that cuts off the interaction with so many great apps.
Our many apps need to talk mooar to each other, not less!
I see the "pro" version has IAA, which is nice.
If iMPC pro was compatible with Audioshare, Audiobus and AudioUnit, I'd buy it instantly and be done with the search for layering, as I understand it can be done with it.
In this case I hope Retronyms might see that opening up to other apps is not a threat to their own.