Which DAW will be the next AU host?

Rich303

Considering the demand, the reponses from the devs, and the amount of time between updates, which DAW do you believe will be the next AU host? Auria Pro, Cubasis, or Garageband?

BiancaNeve

I'm amazed that there wasn't an update to GB. But since there wasn't and AU apps seem very thin on the ground I don't think any of them will rush to release hosting. 

eustressor

@BiancaNeve said:

I'm amazed that there wasn't an update to GB. But since there wasn't and AU apps seem very thin on the ground I don't think any of them will rush to release hosting. 

Auria will have them by Spring at the latest.

Rich303

Yeah I'm surprised with Garageband too. I think the available app list is thin because there aren't many host apps available. When Auria Pro, Cubasis, and Garageband implement it, I'm sure all the others will follow.

Rich303

@eustressor said:

@BiancaNeve said:

I'm amazed that there wasn't an update to GB. But since there wasn't and AU apps seem very thin on the ground I don't think any of them will rush to release hosting. 

Auria will have them by Spring at the latest.

I haven't seen Rim mention that anywhere. So I'm not counting on that.

richardyot

@Rich303 said:

I haven't seen Rim mention that anywhere. So I'm not counting on that.

I think it was a joke - Auria updates always come in the spring

eustressor

@Rich303 said:

@eustressor said:

@BiancaNeve said:

I'm amazed that there wasn't an update to GB. But since there wasn't and AU apps seem very thin on the ground I don't think any of them will rush to release hosting. 

Auria will have them by Spring at the latest.

I haven't seen Rim mention that anywhere. So I'm not counting on that.

Sorry, @Rich303, I should have mentioned I was referencing a running joke. At one point during Auria Pro's development, Rim said it should be ready this year by "Spring at the latest" or words to that effect, over on the Auria forum

@Sebastian made points similar to @BiancaNeve regarding the lack of urgency for developers to incorporate AU hosting in the Big Auria Pro thread. Kind of like the Midibus Library, it's out there, but until it Really Catches On ...

Rich303

LOL  yeah I recall the spring release for Auria Pro. I've been waiting for the past year as well, then I decided to buy Cubasis in June when it went on sale for $30. I'm still tempted to buy Auria Pro. But I hope we don't have to wait another year for it to become an AU host.

Lacm1993

I think it will be GarageBand, the version that support AU and iPad pro it's out there somewhere, there are pictures of it running the AU of iSem. Maybe with iOS 9.2, i think we are also getting some AU effects from Apple but I'm not sure.

Sebastian

@Lacm1993 said:

I think it will be GarageBand, the version that support AU and iPad pro it's out there somewhere, there are pictures of it running the AU of iSem. Maybe with iOS 9.2, i think we are also getting some AU effects from Apple but I'm not sure.

The pictures of iSem running inside of Garageband are there because it's literally the only synth that runs as an AU Extension right now. Apple will never release standalone AU Effects as a separate app. There might be a few included in Garageband though but they might as well just add it as effects inside of Garageband. Now that I think about it... not, AU Extensions bundled with Garageband make no sense either.

Lacm1993

@Sebastian said:

@Lacm1993 said:

I think it will be GarageBand, the version that support AU and iPad pro it's out there somewhere, there are pictures of it running the AU of iSem. Maybe with iOS 9.2, i think we are also getting some AU effects from Apple but I'm not sure.

The pictures of iSem running inside of Garageband are there because it's literally the only synth that runs as an AU Extension right now. Apple will never release standalone AU Effects as a separate app. There might be a few included in Garageband though but they might as well just add it as effects inside of Garageband. Now that I think about it... not, AU Extensions bundled with Garageband make no sense either.

Yeah you are absolutely right, it makes no sense to bundle AU extensions with GarageBand unless they make them available for everyone as separate apps or something, there is no need to make them AU if we could only use them inside GarageBand. Can't remember where I read that information.
I know there are lots of cons to this technology right now and I don't share the opinion that now it's only worthy to paid for apps if there is an AU version on the way, for what I can understand it's impossible for some apps to become AU and there is little monetary reason for developers to make their apps AU (if possible) but I have to admit that 4 instances of iSem running at the same time inside MTS is great and wish I could do the same with more apps.

[Deleted User]

BeatMaker3

AudioGus

@richardyot said:

@Rich303 said:

I haven't seen Rim mention that anywhere. So I'm not counting on that.

I think it was a joke - Auria updates always come in the spring

Dude, this is the internet!!  

Will

@Cinebient said:

BeatMaker3

I'd back that horse.

[Deleted User]

@Sebastian said:

Apple will never release standalone AU Effects as a separate app. There might be a few included in Garageband though but they might as well just add it as effects inside of Garageband. Now that I think about it... not, AU Extensions bundled with Garageband make no sense either.

hm, why not?
they do on os x, available in every AU host


MainStage has all the logic nick nacks ...
garageband on OS X has most of the logic nick nacks now too ...

Ivan_Dj

With options like "Bounce in place" (Auria Pro) is not really important to me how many instance can you run at the same time with AU extensions. You can convert them to audio. If I'm not wrong in the picture we can see iSem with some midi notes, then I think the next is going to be GarageBand.

Sebastian

@lala said:

@Sebastian said:

Apple will never release standalone AU Effects as a separate app. There might be a few included in Garageband though but they might as well just add it as effects inside of Garageband. Now that I think about it... not, AU Extensions bundled with Garageband make no sense either.

hm, why not?
they do on os x, available in every AU host


MainStage has all the logic nick nacks ...
garageband on OS X has most of the logic nick nacks now too ...

Because iOS is an entirely different market and Apple would have to do a complete 180 of their previous strategy if they offered pro features in their consumer-oriented iOS apps. Features that would be confusing to non-professional users.

Also, please don'T forget that there's probably not a way to run many instances of anything, since there's a 360MB ram limit for all instances of an AU Extension. Some Audio Unit Extensions aren't even capable of running multiple instances while providing working UI for all of them.

The way I see it is that users project their hopes and dreams onto this AU Extension tech that is currently not really a product, doesn't get the support it would need to really take off and for which audio developers have no or very little incentive to even support it. On top of that, I don't really see how it's compatible with the new split-screen/multitasking features of iOS 9, which I really like and more and more apps are going to support.

DeVlaeminck

Beeing a non-professional user I'm certainly confused.

Sebastian

See? The communication 'strategy' about what AU Extensions are, what their limitations are, how developers should implement and package them and how they're different from Inter App Audio is just non-existent as far as I can tell. But this is to be expected, because Apple has no way of talking to niche users at all.

Will

@Sebastian AU seems an odd feature to make available/possible in the OS and then not support. Any idea if we see stuff like this because there's a apple developer or two with some wiggle room and they just choose to implement it? Seems a bit of a stretch but it's so niche, as you say, I guess it's possible.

Also, I thought the items in @lala's list were actually already available in iOS via Core Audio (similar to Auria's recently implemented EXS support). Is that not the case?

[Deleted User]

@Sebastian said:

See? The communication 'strategy' about what AU Extensions are, what their limitations are, how developers should implement and package them and how they're different from Inter App Audio is just non-existent as far as I can tell. But this is to be expected, because Apple has no way of talking to niche users at all.

im not so sure of that,
to me it looks like they are after their old crowd again,
they did the "pro" and the pencil for the graphic guys ...
I hope audio is next  
waiting for version 2 and iOS 10 (iOS X,  ) to kill them all 
to me it looks like all au extensions need to use auto layout so you get a kick with split screen out of it ...

Sebastian

@syrupcore said:
@Sebastian AU seems an odd feature to make available/possible in the OS and then not support. Any idea if we see stuff like this because there's a apple developer or two with some wiggle room and they just choose to implement it? Seems a bit of a stretch but it's so niche, as you say, I guess it's possible.

I can only guess. Maybe Apple needed something 'pro' for the iPad Pro? But it was obviously not ready for the actual launch, otherwise the Garageband update would have been live already.

Also, I thought the items in @lala's list were actually already available in iOS via Core Audio (similar to Auria's recently implemented EXS support). Is that not the case?

They are for IAA/Core Audio. They're not accessible for AU Extensions until iOS 9.2.

Sebastian

@lala said:

@Sebastian said:

See? The communication 'strategy' about what AU Extensions are, what their limitations are, how developers should implement and package them and how they're different from Inter App Audio is just non-existent as far as I can tell. But this is to be expected, because Apple has no way of talking to niche users at all.

im not so sure of that,
to me it looks like they are after their old crowd again,
they did the "pro" and the pencil for the graphic guys ...
I hope audio is next  
waiting for version 2 and iOS 10 (iOS X,  ) to kill them all 
to me it looks like all au extensions need to use auto layout so you get a kick with split screen out of it ...

If they were after their 'old' crowd, they'd make sure that crowd could use pro (audio) apps on OS X. But with the sandboxing issues of El Capitan and the Mac App Store issues for Pro apps (Sketch, BBEdit, Qucken, Coda leaving the Mac App Store), Apple looks less interested in the pro crowd than ever.

[Deleted User]

mac app store is a completely different business 
there never was a need for that "service" on osX

Will

@Sebastian said:

If they were after their 'old' crowd, they'd make sure that crowd could use pro (audio) apps on OS X. But with the sandboxing issues of El Capitan and the Mac App Store issues for Pro apps (Sketch, BBEdit, Qucken, Coda leaving the Mac App Store), Apple looks less interested in the pro crowd than ever.

^ totally agree on the pro crowd thing. Creative pros was the market niche that supported them through the PC commodity spiral. Pretty much since they started sticking a lower case *i* in front of everything (iPod, first colored iMacs, iMovie...), Apple has been dead focused on the consumer-with-some-money 'crowd'. And quite successfully, obviously. 

Yes, the pen thing is nice but it's more about note taking that art making; the 'pro' in the iPad Pro translates, to me anyway, as 'moneyed professional in the board room', not 'creative professional on the production team'.

DeVlaeminck

So to wrap up:
There's no real advantage for AU over IAA except regarding multiple instances, which is more or less useless because of the RAM limitations ?
The whole AU comotion is just non-professional/niche users with high hopes for something that will never lift off, because its not (really) supported by Apple and hopeless for developers to make a profit on ?
And all this is caused by Apples "throwing a (useless) bone" to a user segment they have actally abandoned ?

[Deleted User]

@DeVlaeminck said:

So to wrap up:
There's no real advantage for AU over IAA except regarding multiple instances, which is more or less useless because of the RAM limitations ?
The whole AU comotion is just non-professional/niche users with high hopes for something that will never lift off, because its not (really) supported by Apple and hopeless for developers to make a profit on ?
And all this is caused by Apples "throwing a (useless) bone" to a user segment they have actally abandoned ?

Yes!

Sebastian

@DeVlaeminck said:

So to wrap up:
There's no real advantage for AU over IAA except regarding multiple instances, which is more or less useless because of the RAM limitations ?
The whole AU comotion is just non-professional/niche users with high hopes for something that will never lift off, because its not (really) supported by Apple and hopeless for developers to make a profit on ?
And all this is caused by Apples "throwing a (useless) bone" to a user segment they have actally abandoned ?

At some point this technology might actually get some traction, since it has a few technological advantages. We'd certainly love to use it in (Spoiler) Audiobus 3.

But the way I see it it, developers would probably have to make new apps to be able to charge for the additional effort they put into it. Maybe we'll find a way to make it work. Paid upgrades would help. But I'd rather see Apple fix some bugs in IAA, because hundreds of apps would benefit from that directly and immediately.

richardyot

Why can't AU support be an in-app purchase? As long as it's reasonably priced it seems a fair quid-pro-quo for the additional development time.

Rich303

I feel like Apple don't care to fix IAA bugs, and they've abandoned it for AU. I could be wrong. But that's what I feel is happening. They always have that tendency to not fix a lot of things, and I wouldn't be surprised if IAA got swept under the carpet.

Rich303

I don't understand why app devs feel like adding AU support is such an issue. IAA was new at some point, and app devs have implemented it. It shouldn't cost the consumer extra either. It's a more reliable technology than IAA, from what I see. So it would be more in the interest of the app devs to include it rather than have their apps become obsolete while their competitors who implement it cash in from more sales by actually keeping up with the times and providing more of a reliable product which is easier to use with other apps.