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Using bluetooth gaming devices for MIDI
Hello.
So based on someone on another thread saying they used an i-cade as a midi controller, I'm wondering - what's stopping me using this as a cheap and cool MIDI controller:
Do we think that something like MidiFlow would pick it up and be able to reassign midi ccs? Do I need the DoubleDecker app? Something else?
Anyone have any experience? Any advice much appreciated. Could be a cool project.
Comments
So, given that the receiving app must be in the foreground (usually something like Double Decker), why a gaming device rather than a QWERTY keyboard, which gives you more options in one place? Maybe because the gaming device looks cooler?
Exactly! I use Double Decker to control synths all of the time. I espically love running Animoog and chiptune apps/sounds with the NES30. I got this bad boy on eBay for a fraction of the price and it works great!
http://www.8bitdo.com
I've done this via my pc to ipad using iconnect gear and Fergo Joystick Midi app where you can assign ccs. I tried with a XBox wireless controller and got it working well. Haven't used it much though other than initial testing. I'd like to get an i-cade to use it for this too....
Because this on an iPad would be
Hi -- a couple of my apps (Double Decker and Stompwatch) might be good fits. Double Decker is designed for regular Qwerty keyboards, while Stompwatch supports the number keys, and also Bluetooth game controllers. Double Decker is in need of an update -- I'm thinking of changing up how letters are grouped, to make it more configurable than it is now.
What's going on is... when a Bluetooth keyboard device gets a key press, there's only the message that the key was pressed down -- not one for the release. The hassle is that if you tie this to playing a note, you get the note started, but there's no way to tell when to stop. With Double Decker, I use the space bar to stop all triggered notes (and the app can be configured to toggle notes on and off).
Stompwatch took that idea, and then warped it a little, to be better suited as a stomp box controller -- and it has full support for game controllers. Game controllers (iON iCade for sure, but I think it's fairly standard) send one letter when a button is pressed, and a different letter when the button is released -- this lets the app know when to start and stop something. Stompwatch looks for the different letters, and then triggers notes, chords, program changes, or CC messages, as needed.
The big hassle, that should not be overlooked -- the apps have to be in the foreground in order to catch the Bluetooth keystrokes -- Apple is worried about key loggers (as they should be), so there's no way to use the app in the background. In my rig, I've got an older iPhone that I pair with the keyboards and whatnot, and then I send MIDI over Bluetooth (Apollo -- yet another one of my apps!).
Thanks @lukesleepwalker and @TGiG
Having looked into it - the possibilities look a bit more limited than I thought. Only simple key presses seem possible (no dials or XY pads), StompBox or DoubleDecker needs to be in the foreground and... as mentioned... there's no additional features beyond a bluetooth keyboard anyway...
So i'm thinking, not for me. The KorgNano2 series is probably more useful.
@SecretBaseDesign - would the problem of foreground only be solved if your apps were AUs? If so, is this something you're considering?
I'd be willing to bet an AU would not be able to get keystroke access -- Apple is watching for key loggers, and I totally understand where they're coming from on this. What sort of surprises me is how few apps have support for the keyboard -- Loopy does, and a few others, but it's just not as common as I'd expect.
A while back, I had proposed to the AB team that they include keyboard support in their API. Have the AB library listen for keystrokes, with the parent app being able to take over control if it wanted to. If the parent app wasn't asking for keystroke control, the AB library could forward keystrokes to whatever connected app was asking for them -- sort of the same thing as the standard Audiobus control tab entries. They thought it was a bit out of scope for what AB should do, and I can see their point of view on it -- it's a complication, and could get them in hot water with Apple.
I'll be putting the keystroke functionality into Infinite Looper. The code for this really isn't very hard; the dev just has to decide to do it.
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 -- the external keyboard is probably a good solution. I sort of see my BT keyboard apps as "well, you already have a keyboard, why not get a little more out of it," rather than a default solution. I've also always got my QWERTY keyboard with my iPad, but rarely drag along the external MIDI keyboard.
Thanks. I think the apps are brilliant by the way. Apollo I use all the time, too.
I just figure for my uses I'm probably best off using the hardware midi controllers I already own.
But I can see for others, who needs buttons or pedals, it's a great, hack-able option.
What about slide over multitasking?
Holy crap. I had not thought about that at all. And it freakin' works. It actually freakin' works. My current releases of DD and SW don't support slide over (my Air was on 8.3 until a few minutes ago -- trying this was worth updating), but I should be able to add something in -- or I might just do a stand-alone freebie app.
Sweet!
I haven't bought either app because of the "foreground" issue, but I'll be happy to with slide over multi tasking!
I think a new app is the right way to go on this -- I'm doing one that's designed to fit as a sidebar. It should be a quick turnaround to get it together -- probably submit the darned thing this weekend!
Yo, I didn't read above fully but yeah the foreground thing was really the only thing that was strange at first. Like I'd forget which device had to be on what settings and stuff. So to see that addressed would be sick! And Just in case you didn't notice I love using the icade as midi controller so damn funny to show friends too,
Funny you mention this thread, aa my Steel Series Stratus arrived today. It got me thinking back to the days of Playstation MTV Music Generator!
Righteous!
Secret base are the cash money!
Is it possible to daisy chain end points for MIDI over Bluetooth? That is, if you had three iPads and you used Apollo style A to B connection, could the "middle" iPad act as both a receiver and a sender to a third iPad? Or better to just go to a MIDI network session for that use case?
I know I accidentally hooked up my iPhone and pad once, but not sure quite what you mean. Hookin up 3 pads is gangster.!
I think it is probably possible. And it is certainly gangster.
You probably can't use Bluetooth between the second and the third device though. Might need to use USB or maybe wifi. But I might be wrong on that.
I'm jamming with two other dudes, all of us using iPads running Loopy. With Link, the three iPads running Loopy stay in sync just fine (plus allow me to use Fugue Machine, etc as necessary). But I want to be able to use my Bluetooth foot controller to send MIDI CCs to stop the session on all three versions of Loopy, mute a track, etc.
The sidebar app that @SecretBaseDesign has proposed would be absolutely perfect for capturing the Bluetooth bindings in the foreground and still allow me to keep Loopy (or Fugue or Samplr) in the foreground as well. But I need the other two iPads to "hear" the MIDI CCs that the Secret Base app would emit. Hence, my question about MIDI over Bluetooth (via Apollo) or just setting up a wifi session.
Note that my Bluetooth foot controller maps to the up/down, left/right arrows and it's not clear to me whether Double Decker supports those keys from the QWERTY keyboard? (It looks like the controller has other modes that may include the regular QWERTY keys.)
Correction: my Bluetooth controller does have a mode that maps the four pedals to the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4. So I could use either Double Decker or Stompwatch with this foot controller. Looking forward to seeing how that sidebar app materializes!
Sidebar app is cruising along! I'm thinking it will be really useful.
@lukesleepwalker -- what brand of pedal is it? And when you press the pedals, it sends the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4... Does it send something else when you lift up the pedal? I'll try to bake support for this into the app.
Thanks @SecretBaseDesign . It's an Airturn four pedal model that uses the BT-105 "brain".
Wheee! Sidecar 1.0 has been submitted to Apple. It supports QWERTY keyboards and the iCade -- will look at adding Airturn, and other stuff, shortly. When in side-by-side or slide-over, it can catch Bluetooth keyboard keystrokes, and then trigger all sorts of things with MIDI. The on-screen pads can send notes and chords, or MIDI CC or PC messages. The pads track touch location, for mapping velocity or CC values.
For the QWERTY keyboard, the lower two rows of keys are laid out piano-style; for the folks who have used Double Decker, that's what's going on there. I'll post a little demo video in a bit. The app is sort of a mash-up of Double Decker, Stompwatch, and FCBFF. Thanks much for the suggestion of using slide-over! I hadn't thought about that at all!
Yeehaw, can't wait for this one! I'll be able to use qwerty to work with my airturn. Keep us posted when it goes live in the app store...
Thanks for moving so fast on Sidecar!
Wow that's a fast sidecar! Thanks @SecretBaseDesign
It's out! That has to be a record
Sidecar MIDI Controller by Secret Base Design
https://appsto.re/us/WJv-_.i