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Seems to me Eno was talking about the difficulties he faces in what he does. "Do I resist the temptation to perfect this thing?" It's about artistic decisions. Nothing to do with how old he is. If you're an artist of any age you face the same, but maybe without experience, you don't realize it? Before digital, it was much more difficult to "perfect this thing," and so the effect editing had on music tended to preserve a lot more of the performance. Today, there's more pressure to "perfect" the performance. I don't see how anyone could miss the point that artists have important decisions to make, and a difference in options has the power to change an art form. To turn it into young vs old, or EDM vs calliope music seems to miss that point.
A lot of what Eno has ever said (and I remember him saying a similar thing several decades ago, about how with digital synths you can spend a couple of days in the studio just pressing the up button going through all the patches until you find one you like) (and I remember him saying a similar thing several decades ago about how he had about fifty “master” versions of an album …was it My Life In?) relates to the difficulty involved now that technology has allowed ease of parallel choices.
His basic point here, as it was there, is that at some point the artist has to commit to a decision. Where do you make that decision? With technology, the decision can be deferred, postponed, until almost the end. I’d say, now, past the end (the Kanye West thing).
You know, have some balls — make a fecking decision! Decide! Don’t be afraid of making mistakes, you wuss. Make your decision. Basically, you can’t call yourself an artist and not make some artistic decisions.
It’s similar in other areas too. Writing. You can keep drafts, back copies of what you wrote and deleted, just in case you want it back. Photography. Shooting in RAW so you can spend a weekend tweaking one single photo (of the 500 you just shot) every possible creative way you can find yourself facing, then you can’t choose among the 250 results so you archive them all, and never make that decision. As a photographer brought up with film, I had to commit every time I loaded film. I couldn’t shoot colour if I’d loaded black and white. I couldn’t shoot high ISO if I’d only loaded Kodachrome 64 (…RIP). These days I even encourage people to try to shoot on jpeg and use the built in effects of a modern digital camera, purely to learn to ‘commit’ a decision — there’s no going back!
As I say, his essential point is and always has been that we’re weak in making decisions, and (counterintuitively) technology doesn’t assist in this respect, it hinders it.
That's nothing new, I remember reading somewhere that Quincy Jones did 99 different mixes for Billie Jean, and then ended up using mix no. 2.
Just been listening to Joy Divisions Closer on Vinyl.
To my mind it has an almost live feel compared to many modern records, but I still fail to see how any of it could not be done with modern tech.
Maybe we just have to learn to use less of everything, resist the urge to overproduce everything and dare I say it, actually learn some timing while playing (hangs head in shame)
from what I've read Billie Jean was not mixed by Quincy Jones, who co-produced this track, but by Bruce Swedien and the number of mixes was 91.
Billie Jean is a great example of the use of conventional and unconventional methods in the search for THE sound.
Thanks for clarifying - I was relying on my (unreliable) memory, I didn't fact-check before posting
But the spirit of the story is still the same: the second mix was better than the following 89!
absolutely! check out Bruce Swedien's awesome thread about Billie Jean on gearslutz where he talks about how it came that those mixes kept stacking:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruce-swedien/84587-real-story-billie-jean.html
Thanks for that awesome link - it's obviously the original version of the story I picked up second, third, or fourth hand from somewhere
One of the most original-sounding albums, ever. In my book it definitely is. Also, Closer was a turning point for me when I was 16. Musically speaking, that's sorta my coming-of-age album.
Yes, truly an album that has something special and some great memories to boot. The album seems quite simplistic, but try and copy it and it's not so easy to get that special feeling it has.
I've tried many years ago to do a cover of Isolation, but just can't pin down what was missing in my versions
Years back we did a cover of Decades. It wasn't good, oh no, it wasn't good at all.
another thing about Billie Jean that is cool is that in stark contrast to the almost 100 of different mixes that were made of this song, Michael Jackson recorded his vocals in just one take.
There was this guy at high school that got on my nerves talking about his U2 copycat band. To mess with him I told him about my "band" and every few weeks I'd bring a cassette of our latest demo song. Joy Division was the perfect choice— fuzzy and somewhat lofi, but undeniably great, and far too obscure in that tiny town to ever be found out. Good fun.
Apparently, Eno's made a music career out of his struggles. He was asked a question about retaining the "human touch" in the Fela Kuti recordings, which is a philosophical question that really has no definitive answer.
I dunno. Boy's done alright for isself.
a difference in options has the power to change an art form. To turn it into young vs old, or EDM vs calliope music seems to miss that point.
Does new software change the music?
Yes it does.
But that is not the point.
As I said, the music still happens in front of the computer.
You decide what to do.
I think it'll be interesting to see if AI can create music that humans enjoy as much music created by humans.
What a concept
It's almost certainly possible at some level: just program some rules - cadences, resolution, etc... But whether it will have the ability to create emotion in the listener is another matter altogether.
I'm dubious on this last point. Humans are very complex social and emotional animals. How else to explain the popularity of "Muskrat Love"?
Dare I say that "A.I" already has had it's hand in making music. Between the FL Studio chord progression program and tons of other automated programs that pretty much makes the songs for you, mainstream music has become so autonomous, monotonous, and robotic. We don't need any more robotics in music, please don't jinx us. Part of me is saying yes that's a great scientific experiment I would love to see if an A.I. can achieve a full track, mix, and master with a command. The other part of me is saying please no more autotuned, recycled, and garbled music.
Eno decides what to do, and in the case discussed, he's deciding what to do with someone else's performance. Everyone decides what to do with the new technology, and hopefully they give it the consideration Eno feels it's worthy of. People worry about AI taking over music creation, but that too is a human decision. Ultimately, people have to want to listen to it.
let's look again at what he actually said,
and let's not get confused with what the writer of that piece wants to say.
I’m not saying there is any advantage in going back to it ...
It meaning the old way of doing things
I have a feeling that hooking people up to an EEG while they listen to proceduraly generated music that monitors their pleasure centers and adjusts paramters on the fly to learn what people like is not too far off or maybe even being dabbled in already.
this looks much more interesting to me
http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/watch-brian-eno-explore-john-peels-record-collection/
anybody knows where to view this?
its not on bbc servers anymore ...
please link me to it
it can't be just these 5 min, right?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033smwp#mp3
This is his John Peel lecture. Quite good.
1 hr and 9 mins.
My pleasure
thx
Eno: “I’m not saying there is any advantage in going back to it, it’s just interesting to try it, to remind yourself of how completely you are now part of this new technology of writing.”
Yes, he was referring to the use of “Undo.” Eno has not only embraced modern music technology, probably as much as anyone here, he’s actually been fairly successful at it. The only people who seem to be confused are the ones criticizing him for his introspection.
@lala oh it's definitely been dabbled in.
Great lines of thought here - but
The "dangers of digital dependence" are the words, and spin, of the journalist. I don't see Eno using the word danger at all; his statement was that he "wonders" about the impact of digital tools on recording, specifically with capturing live music.