How Hard Would it Be to Create a Basic SFZ Player APP?

[Deleted User]

@yellow said:
for sure! the engine (loading, au, etc.) was ready but I decided to not rely on AUSampler, so... it's going to take some time, but it'll do!

This has been a big hole in iOS. It would be very nice if the app could create sf2 soundfonts too.

sirdavidabraham

@yellow said:

@brambos said:

@yellow said:
AFAIK and test, bs-16i -which is great software- does not disk-stream the samples, then a 4gb won't fit in even an iPad air 2. also, sf2 is not as powerful sampler format as sfz. anyway, for simple samples is great.

Will you be using disk-streaming to get around the 360Mb RAM limitation of 64-bit AUv3 extensions?

I'm using ExtAudioFile, so yes it disk streams

Very interesting. If this works out, then between Phasemaker AU, PPG Wavemapper AU and this SFZ AU I could really get serious about iOS

rebelsoxuk

@yellow said:
for sure! the engine (loading, au, etc.) was ready but I decided to not rely on AUSampler, so... it's going to take some time, but it'll do!

Hey.

Did anything ever come of this? It's been a year since the discussion...

Cheers

sox

LucidMusicInc

Caustic accepts SFZ format.

jwmmakerofmusic

I'm going to give this thread a bump, because while Nanostudio 2 has most everything I need, having a basic SFZ player AU would've been perfect. I don't know why @yellow hasn't returned yet.

With all of the AU synths that have been released last month and this month, you'd think one of them would be a bloody SFZ player of some sort.

Daveypoo

I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

jwmmakerofmusic

@Daveypoo said:
I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

I wouldn't want it to be bs-16i though. I haven't redownloaded it in a long while, but if I recall, their library system for handling sf2 files was bizarre and unintuitive (at least for me) rather than straightforward like it is in Caustic, Audio Evolution, and Auria.

BiancaNeve

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/midi-voyager/id1265602132?mt=8

Will allegedly load sfz

jwmmakerofmusic

@BiancaNeve said:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/midi-voyager/id1265602132?mt=8

Will allegedly load sfz

Looks pretty ripper, but the issue is that it isn't an AU what can be used within Nanostudio 2. This being said, I see no issue in my contacting the developer to see if they'd be willing to create an SFZ player AU.

Daveypoo

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:
I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

I wouldn't want it to be bs-16i though. I haven't redownloaded it in a long while, but if I recall, their library system for handling sf2 files was bizarre and unintuitive (at least for me) rather than straightforward like it is in Caustic, Audio Evolution, and Auria.

I agree - BS-16i is far from perfect, and the file management leaves a bit to be desired. This just seems like it would be the most obvious solution as the app itself is stable

jwmmakerofmusic

@Daveypoo said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:
I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

I wouldn't want it to be bs-16i though. I haven't redownloaded it in a long while, but if I recall, their library system for handling sf2 files was bizarre and unintuitive (at least for me) rather than straightforward like it is in Caustic, Audio Evolution, and Auria.

I agree - BS-16i is far from perfect, and the file management leaves a bit to be desired. This just seems like it would be the most obvious solution as the app itself is stable

Right. Then again mate, I'm hoping developers such as @VirSyn , @FredAntonCorvest , @sundhage and others are following this thread too. There is currently no SFZ AU plugin, and the only SF2 plugin is the confusing bs-16i. The demand for a proper SFZ player with proper Files support is right there, so hopefully one of them comes up with the supply for said demand. $9.99 or more is not an unreasonable price for a higher-grade SFZ player with a decent AHDSR amp envelope, filter, and automation capabilities.

analog_matt

Regarding basic SFZ player code, I've released a version of the ROM Player source code template that plays SFZs:
https://github.com/AudioKit/ROMPlayer

This code is MIT licensed and free for anyone to use for personal projects or commercial projects 👍

i.e. You can load your SFZs in there and load it onto your iPad. (If you're comfortable using Xcode)

SFZ support is basic now. And, doesn't support all the bells-and-whistles of the full format. (SFZ can be quite robust). But, it will play basic key/velocity mapped SFZ files. Plus, since it's open source, you can add any features you want to the sample player.

espiegel123

If you want a developer to REALLY pay notice, contact them directly rather than hoping that they see our messages here. As a former long-time developer involved in small and large companies, I can tell you that direct emails from users count a lot more than forum messages. By all means post here also, but just know that when a dev receives an email or contact through whatever their preferred support channel is -- it makes a bigger impression and is more likely to be seen -- and encourage others to do the same.

Hopefully, Virsyn will add this to AudioLayer soon as they have the nice disk-streaming stuff set up and EXS and sfz are quite similar.

Fingers crossed.

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:
I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

I wouldn't want it to be bs-16i though. I haven't redownloaded it in a long while, but if I recall, their library system for handling sf2 files was bizarre and unintuitive (at least for me) rather than straightforward like it is in Caustic, Audio Evolution, and Auria.

I agree - BS-16i is far from perfect, and the file management leaves a bit to be desired. This just seems like it would be the most obvious solution as the app itself is stable

Right. Then again mate, I'm hoping developers such as @VirSyn , @FredAntonCorvest , @sundhage and others are following this thread too. There is currently no SFZ AU plugin, and the only SF2 plugin is the confusing bs-16i. The demand for a proper SFZ player with proper Files support is right there, so hopefully one of them comes up with the supply for said demand. $9.99 or more is not an unreasonable price for a higher-grade SFZ player with a decent AHDSR amp envelope, filter, and automation capabilities.

jwmmakerofmusic

@analog_matt said:
Regarding basic SFZ player code, I've released a version of the ROM Player source code template that plays SFZs:
https://github.com/AudioKit/ROMPlayer

This code is MIT licensed and free for anyone to use for personal projects or commercial projects 👍

i.e. You can load your SFZs in there and load it onto your iPad. (If you're comfortable using Xcode)

SFZ support is basic now. And, doesn't support all the bells-and-whistles of the full format. (SFZ can be quite robust). But, it will play basic key/velocity mapped SFZ files. Plus, since it's open source, you can add any features you want to the sample player.

Will it recognise preset loop points in the metadata of a wav file?

jwmmakerofmusic

@espiegel123 said:
If you want a developer to REALLY pay notice, contact them directly rather than hoping that they see our messages here. As a former long-time developer involved in small and large companies, I can tell you that direct emails from users count a lot more than forum messages. By all means post here also, but just know that when a dev receives an email or contact through whatever their preferred support channel is -- it makes a bigger impression and is more likely to be seen -- and encourage others to do the same.

Hopefully, Virsyn will add this to AudioLayer soon as they have the nice disk-streaming stuff set up and EXS and sfz are quite similar.

Fingers crossed.

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Daveypoo said:
I don't understand why this hasn't been added to BS16i - seems like the ideal candidate for this. I don't understand enough about SF2 and SFZ files to know how hard this is, though.

I wouldn't want it to be bs-16i though. I haven't redownloaded it in a long while, but if I recall, their library system for handling sf2 files was bizarre and unintuitive (at least for me) rather than straightforward like it is in Caustic, Audio Evolution, and Auria.

I agree - BS-16i is far from perfect, and the file management leaves a bit to be desired. This just seems like it would be the most obvious solution as the app itself is stable

Right. Then again mate, I'm hoping developers such as @VirSyn , @FredAntonCorvest , @sundhage and others are following this thread too. There is currently no SFZ AU plugin, and the only SF2 plugin is the confusing bs-16i. The demand for a proper SFZ player with proper Files support is right there, so hopefully one of them comes up with the supply for said demand. $9.99 or more is not an unreasonable price for a higher-grade SFZ player with a decent AHDSR amp envelope, filter, and automation capabilities.

Good tip mate. I will do so once I'm back home.

analog_matt

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Will it recognise preset loop points in the metadata of a wav file?

Yes, sir!

jwmmakerofmusic

@analog_matt said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Will it recognise preset loop points in the metadata of a wav file?

Yes, sir!

Good sweetness! Gonna reach out to a couple of my favourite devs to see what they can concoct.

analog_matt

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
$9.99 or more is not an unreasonable price for a higher-grade SFZ player with a decent AHDSR amp envelope, filter, and automation capabilities.

Our tech at AudioKit is an open-book:
AudioKit Digital D1 is basically a fancy dual-layer SFZ player with decent ADSR envelopes, filters, and automation capabilities. . (Plus, a synth layer).

The sound sources of Digital D1 are SFZs, converted from Kontakt instruments.

AudioKit's SFZ player is cross-platform. Plus, we even have free example code version of it powering a Mac AU plugins, using FM Player samples.

Though, the thing with SFZs is that the format can be very different between apps that export the format. Plus, folks could spend months developing all the edge cases and supporting all the features that SFZ allows.

There is a prominent iOS DAW developer who wants to contribute to the AudioKit SFZ player when he has time to make it more robust. Though, he's a pretty busy guy.

However, with all the AudioKit contributors, hopefully we'll see SFZ support that's so easy to add to apps, that you'll see it everywhere this time next year.

McDtracy

So the hard part is already done... a good Computer Science grad with a summer free or an intern slot at Google could do this in 3-6 months and get some Open Source credits on their resume for that Google programming job.

"AudioKit SFZ ROM-man Empire" for $0 in iTunes.

jwmmakerofmusic

@analog_matt said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
$9.99 or more is not an unreasonable price for a higher-grade SFZ player with a decent AHDSR amp envelope, filter, and automation capabilities.

Our tech at AudioKit is an open-book:
AudioKit Digital D1 is basically a fancy dual-layer SFZ player. (Plus, a synth layer).

The sound sources of Digital D1 are SFZs, converted from Kontakt instruments.

If I was the type of person that liked to make money, I would spend a few days making a separate version of D1 that would allow people to use their own SFZs.

That seems like too much of a cash grab for my tastes. And, the thing with SFZs is that the format can be very different between apps that export the format. Plus, folks could spend months developing all the edge cases and supporting all the features that SFZ allows.

Well, if you could push out that separate version of D1 and make it Files compatible so I can drag and drop my SFZ patches and have it recognise subdirectories and the like, and a small "getting started" guide so as I know where to put what (or at least allow the app to let me tap on the SFZ doc so it can read the subfolder and load the samples proper like), I'd be eternally grateful and would love to donate something to your Paypal for the trouble. This isn't a cash grab. It's about respecting and admiring you as a developer and a good mate to this forum.

With that being said, when I tried to program the Obsidian patches via reading the SFZ file through a text editor, I noticed that all the modded D1 needs is to read wav metadata to get the preset loop points (and that's already covered), needs to read the key zones, the root key, velocity zones, tuning, and transposition. It also needs to stream from disk instead of loading the samples into RAM.

Thing is, I do have a massive documentary scoring project coming up, and while the IAP sounds in NS2 are alright for a mock-up, the DSK sample pack sounds far better. So as said, the sooner the better. And as said, I will donate some money your particular direction.

analog_matt

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
It also needs to stream from disk instead of loading the samples into RAM.

That's a feature that's not available yet in the AudioKit SFZ player code. Though, we hope to add it in the coming year.

jwmmakerofmusic

@analog_matt said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
It also needs to stream from disk instead of loading the samples into RAM.

That's a feature that's not available yet in the AudioKit SFZ player code. Though, we hope to add it in the coming year.

Aww bummer, lol. Apple's ecosystem is quite finicky about how much RAM is allotted per AU loaded, which is why disk streaming would be the better way to go. Hopefully it'll be tackled sooner than later. I greatly appreciate all of your efforts. You and your team rock.

greengrocer

AFAIK StageLight and Auria support SFZ
Believe the SFZ player of Stagelight comes with the free package

jwmmakerofmusic

@greengrocer said:
AFAIK StageLight and Auria support SFZ
Believe the SFZ player of Stagelight comes with the free package

Auria is a PITA to program. How easy is it to enter notes in Stagelight? Does Stagelight support multiple time signatures per track and tempo automation? Just curious mate.