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DJ'ing: Is It Creative?
Hey, folks. You probably haven't seen my blog, but, if you had, you'd know that I ask a lot of dumb questions and can be kind of dense. Something that I've never been able to understand is how to use software that's aimed at "DJ's" in a creative, artistic way -- and that's been really confusing because I feel like, in our culture, DJ's are treated like artists. I don't go to clubs or anything, but it seems like, whenever I've watched videos on "DJ'ing fundamentals," "how to be a DJ," "what is a DJ," etc., their function is to... smoothly transition from one song to the next -- so, you know, DJ'ing in the traditional sense.
But DJ'ing gear is marketed as instruments, and they're expensive as Hell -- and, in the realm of this forum, there's also a ton of DJ'ing apps on iTunes that try to appeal to me as musical tools, and they all have similar features: a couple of decks, a cross-fader to move between them... looping, beat-matching... maybe a couple of effects. I guess that I don't get it; are these things really used for more than just moving between two songs or, in extreme cases, matching the tempo and key of two songs to layer them on top of one another? Also, what is all this about "remixing" when all that you have access to are two, pre-mastered songs -- no stems, no samples, no MIDI... What, you're just looping segments from the song, filtering them, and that's a remix?
I love TweakyBeat and SeekBeats, so the release of the developer's new app, "DJDJ," interests me greatly, and I've never been more surrounded by musicians than I've been since I joined this forum, so maybe you guys can offer me some insight; how the#$%& is a tool like this really supposed to be used?
Do any of you guys have any favorite DJ's...? Any performances on YouTube that you can link me to so that I can understand what the creative side of DJ'ing actually is? Outside of classic turntablists like Kid Koala (I love scratching), it seems like every video of a DJ that I see is just them standing behind way too much equipment and just bobbing their head, pretending to adjust knobs ("awww yeah, I'll just... give this knob 1/180th of a turn -- oh yeah, that's MUCH better, but, on second thought, I guess I'll give it another 1/180th of a turn in the opposite direction -- wow, even better still! Good thing I'm such a pro!") and occasionally sweeping a filter. I also love how they keep their other hand busy by holding an earcup of their headphones against their ear.
I also have 'RMX-1000,' which seems really cool and like it would have creative utility, but I just don't comprehend, from my background, how it's actually meant to be used.
How are you supposed to make or otherwise creatively interact with music using decks like these? Where do you get your loops from, what sorts of loops work well together, and how do you manipulate them once you have them? If I created a few of my own musical loops, where does the actual performance come in once I bring them into a DJ deck app like this one?
Thanks for your help, guys.
Comments
software that's aimed at "DJ's"
btw where is the link to your blog?
Haha; I resisted the urge to link it, since I feel like I've been promoting it on here a lot, lately. It's at lieslavish.tumblr.com ; the meaning of my intro to this post was that a major theme of my blog is me approaching basic musical concepts like a total alien. That's really how I feel, sometimes, so most of my posts are about trying to level with other people that might feel the same way.
As for this thread, I guess the tl;dr version would be:
I'm gonna buy DJDJ, so do any of you guys have any insight into how to maximize the artistic potential of this sort of app? I'd really love some examples of decks of this nature -- hardware or software -- being used as creative tools.
Alright so... let's see if I can help!
So in the beginning, "DJing" was transitioning from one song to another. Think turntables. You had one record and you'd have to match the BPM to another record so the dancing never stopped. With the progress of technology, the ability to transition went from cross-fading between audio levels to using EQ controls (to bring in the bass drum of one song, say) or effects (like having a long delay or reverb to fade out a song). Looping/Beat Repeat (1 beat, 1 bar, etc) became another way to transition. Basically, it got boring to transition the same way twice, so people had to figure out how to do it differently each song. Now you have all kinds of effects (looking at DJDJ). RMX-1000 is an additional hardware that has a lot of these effects, but instead of doing it between decks you might use it as a master so that you can control both.
"Remixing" originally meant literally taking stems and remixing them. Now it can mean any number of things it seems. "Remixing" wasn't something a DJ did though, really. It was more something a music producer did. As time has gone on, popular music producers were able to perform live as DJs. Which is why we get a little bit of the confusion. Really a remix is taking stems and just mixing them a different way - changing the arrangement or the levels at the most basic. However now remixing is generally understood as taking elements (or even an element, like a vocal) from one song and constructing a new song (typically in a different genre, although not always the case) out of that element. This is something a producer does. It is possible to remix live if you have the stems (this is sort of what Deadmau5 does when he performs sometimes).
With computers, music producers have become DJs on a whole new level. The hardware that gets marketed as instruments are generally connected to sophisticated software suites. Ableton is one of the most popular. You can use something like the Launchpad to play an instrument, or play a variety of samples, or play a variety of loops, or a mix of both. Maschine is another controller I just saw used at Ultra Music Festival. (see Jeremy Ellis below).
What you'll want to look for is what's called "controllerism" - that is using hardware as an instrument. DJTechTools.com is a primary resource for this movement which includes hardware made of video game buttons. There's a concept called "finger drumming" which allows performers to play a 4x4 drum pad like a more full instrument. (see videos below).
If you look at some professional DJ setups, you'll see a variety of systems -- Zedd uses a Kontrol S4 mixer with Traktor (using four decks, last I heard). Deadmau5 has a lot of stems in Ableton (used to use the popular iPad app Lemur to control). Many DJs use CD decks that accept USB drives. Dillon Francis uses Serato, another popular DJ software that can use digital vinyl records as turntables. Some are just mixing Song A with Song B. Some are performing "live" in the sense that they can affect instrument tonality and even which notes are played. Many DJs have both DJ sets and live sets (e.g. Deadmau5 "Unplugged" is just a DJ set. Porter Robinson, Chromeo and Bloody Beetroots can play both Live with synths and instruments or just as DJs.)
Moguai used to have a sample live Ableton set for sale. I'm not an expert with it, but basically he created a Deck A and a Deck B with longer song pieces. Then he created a Deck C that included a lot of smaller loops from songs in A and B. This helped the mixing between the two decks while also allowing for some "mash-ups" - playing part of one song with another song. (An off-shoot of remixing, something some DJs do live... but some DJs create mashups in the studio before playing them out - not uncommon). The most simple mashup is the vocal a capella of one song playing under another song (usually in the same key). A lot of DJs use software like Mixed in Key so that they know that mixing from A-B-C-D will sound harmonious. A lot of time software (like DJDJ) will have cue points which can be helpful for both mixing and mashups.
Here's an example of a "DJ" - really a music producer - who through samples remixed a large number of pop songs.
Madeon's Pop Culture:
This guy has built a large following based on his remixes, many of which he performs live -
Araabmuzik:
Jeremy Ellis who I saw play with The Roots:
As far as maximizing potential? This is how it worked for me - learn how to mix two songs together. Just match BPM. Then figure out how to match key. Then see how the drums in one song can kind of make another song sound better. Then see if you can mash-up a song (super easy to do this with a remix of the same song). Then see if you can put an a capella on top of another song. By that point, you'll be pretty sophisticated with the DJ app. You might already be moving on to other stuff. I found that two decks was pretty limiting, although for some people the limits are great and artistically freeing.
One of the roughest but also funniest way I saw decks used was by a friend of mine which was playing some '60 Rock'n'Roll on one deck and some 200bpm techno on the other. It was hilarious.
) which are someof my all time favorites.
Then on the scratching side there is Captain Panic and his routines(
I consider the most in a dj the music journey he can deliver rather than how smooth his transitions are(rock djs don't know a shit about tempo matching, beat matching, drop or double drop, they just drop the tune).
A DJ is a person on the radio who puts a record on. Apparently, no DJs saved any lives at all last night, nor at any other time.
I think like any other creative endeavour such as designing, the creative algorithm is one of choosing. When I was a designer, I always said that you could substitute the word “designer” with “decider” in any passage of text and it would still make sense.
A DJ’s skill is judging which record to put on next. That’s probably creative, if picking a meaningful colour palette or selecting a radius for serifs that gives that special fizz, or choosing what is in a photograph versus what isn’t in, is also classed as creative.
There's a thing called Cue Point juggling that it seems DJDJ specializes in. That's when you jump between different cue points in a song (some of the same skills as finger drumming). DJDJ seems to excel with this: 8 cued points OR cued loops per song... Not sure I've seen something do that natively. Maybe a place to explore the app's uniqueness. It's the first thing they feature in their app video.
If you're curious about DJing with loops, check out the Launchpad app. That gives you a pretty good idea of how loops can be mixed with each other. There are some pretty decent native sample packs in there that can get you started.
RE: RMX-1000, here's the DJ Tech Tools Review of the hardware version, with a video by a popular DJ Laidback Luke in use: http://djtechtools.com/2012/05/06/pioneer-rmx-1000-effects-unit-review/
Dammit, I'm going to have to buy DJDJ, aren't I?
I'll swear I'll stop commenting, but guys, DJDJ on iPad Pro gives you 4 Decks at the same time.
Dammit, now I'm going to have to buy an IPad Pro.
Having worked on the creation of some DJ-ing software 10+ (yikes) years ago I can tell you unequivocally that DJ-ing absolutely can be a creative endeavor. You may not be originating the pieces of music that are being used, but there is plenty scope for creativity in choice of records, and parts thereof, mixing them, using effects & loopers, etc. How much creativity is in play is a matter of choice for the DJ, their skill at making something with the available tools, and what the audience are prepared to put up with
anything, is it something?
I'm not falling for THIS provocation again.
That was very succinct and eloquent.
Stop doing that. You'll break the Internet.
Check out NI's Traktor DJ app. It's one of the best.
I have an long story of being in the booth as well as in the studio.
I guess it is really what you are doing it for?
I had a background of performing musically for large audiences before DJ'ing so I had experience.
The main thing is why you want to DJ and what type of music?
Waking up to this thread was like seeing a big pile of presents under the tree on Christmas morning. Thank you all for being so patient and for both making the matter so simple while also going into such elaborate depth. I especially appreciate the first-hand insight from @thesammiller and @jiggywig . Thank you, Sam, for approaching the topic as a source for writing in such detail.
Also thank you @mschenkel.it , @lady_app_titude , and the rest for your recommendations; I'm happy to have some videos and other resources to be examining, today. I already have a much better grasp of the subject than I did last night -- in fact, I'd say that the question has been well-answered, and it's one that I've considered on-and-off pretty much every time that I've ever seen DJ gear at Guitar Center, the app store, etc. Now, I've already got some ideas for how I'm going to go about using DJDJ, so I've got an entire new musical approach to explore, which is exactly what I was hoping to get out of this thread.
Have a good day, you guys!
here's 2 examples of the creative use of turntables: the first one is about Grandmaster Flash showing how to do a break mix. quote (well I try to quote but since English is not my native language there can be mistakes):
'The way that I see other discjockeys playing their music it was like, they could have done more - maybe not what I did but they could've done more to.. to how can I say this.. to enhance the mix - I mean far as.. for the people that paid their hard earned money to come to the discotheques I don't think it's.. totally fair really to just.. start the record from.. the beginning and then wait for it to end and mix the next record in I mean.. they're not doing no work - I mean if you're gonna go.. you're gonna do work, do work!
I mean I tried different things and um, I took a risk really just trying something new really.. not knowing really where it was gonna really take me.'
second one is showing Mix Master Mike mixing Robert Johnson's Rambling On My Mind with Dead Prez's It's Bigger Than Hip Hop:
Just in case anyone’s interested in the early history of Disco, here’s some extracts of text:
… In Occupied France, jazz and bebop music, and the jitterbug dance were banned by the Nazis as decadent American influences, so as an act of French resistance, people met at hidden basements called discothèques…
…These discothèques were also patronized by anti-Vichy youth called zazous. There were also underground discothèques in Nazi Germany patronized by anti-Nazi youth called the swing kids.
…In Paris, at a club named Whisky à Gogo, founded in 1947, Régine in 1953 laid down a dance-floor, suspended coloured lights and replaced the jukebox with two turntables which she operated herself so there would be no breaks between the music. The Whisky à Gogo set into place the standard elements of the modern post World War II discothèque-style nightclub.
I haven't read through this thread yet but my take on the original question ...
there arnet so many creative DJs around these days ... quite difficult to come up with something that hasn't been done previously. early pioneers Grand Wizard Theodore, Grand Master Flash were truly creative !!
i cant be doing with so called "super star" DJs who do little more than spin loops from their chosen piece of hardware. .. that is not creative.
Kink's boiler room set here is a breath of fresh air ..
Big fan of the blog, glad I was able to help. Looking forward to your deep dive post on DJDJ!