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Is iOS in a live situation worth the stress?
Hi All,
So I've been gigging with my iOS rig as a keyboardist for a few months and have made it through about 10 gigs. I'm reflecting on my setup and some of the issues I've had and trying to decide if this rig will remain and if so, what changes should be made. I'm considering adding a hardware module for its stability. I also have not spent enough time with iMidiPatchbay which might improve my setup. Here is my list of pros and cons for my current setup using iPad, iPod touch and midi controllers:
Pros: great sounds overall, ability to tweak, add effects etc., large pool of sounds to choose from, keyboard controller is a light 15 lbs. compared to my 70 lb. hardware Yamaha keyboard and smaller so fits in the car better.
Cons: occasional drop-outs, stuck midi notes, strange audio artifacts that I can't identify a problem for, while complexity of setup, layering etc. should be a plus, I'm afraid to use more than 2 apps at a time due to lack of stability.
Do the pros of iOS in a live situation outweigh the occasional cons? I'd love to hear opinions on this as well as what optimizes your setup? Thanks in advance.
Comments
Short answer:
Yes.
I will now read your post.
Edit:
In your situation I'd actually go for a sound module personally. Less fuss, less latency and no clear advantage to an iOS rig other than having a lot of choice (which matters a lot more to you than to your audience or your MD). iOS is worth it if the unique performance opportunities that it offers are of practical value to you.
O
Thanks @OscarSouth, for your thoughtful response.
no clear advantage to an iOS rig other than having a lot of choice (which matters a lot more to you than to your audience or your MD).
This is actually a really good point. As I play mostly covers, most of my audience members won't notice the nuances of a well crafted synth tone, but they will certainly notice if my keyboard sound drops out mid song!
iOS is worth it if the unique performance opportunities that it offers are of practical value to you.
There actually are some practical uses for me with some of the unique apps available. I guess ultimately, I'd like to find a way to marry the old with the new. I think the stability of a hardware module would be best for the majority of my performance and maybe I could incorporate iOS apps sparingly mainly to "spice up" my performances.
What iOS devices are you using, and what apps?
I find that playing live with them requires keeping the potential overhead as low as possible if you want to minimize/eliminate dropouts and stuck notes from your performance. I use a few fairly efficient apps on both an iPad mini 4 and an iPod touch 6 and everything runs stable for me. The 2GB of ram on the mini4 (or an Air) makes a huge difference with certain app combinations.
I did spend a lot of time before and in rehearsals validating stability, though.
In the end, I have a very small rig that I am able to maintain duplicate gear for, in case of an emergency, at less than the cost of the single hardware setup - and I have the ability to change at any time. But you have to spend more time testing, and making sure app/iOS updates don't affect stability.
Thanks @rad3d,
I am using a fourth generation iPad with a Novation AudioHub and an M-Audio 61 controller. Apps include: iGrand, Magellan, NoisePad, Beathawk, iSymphonic (there are others, but these are the main ones). Initially, I ran a more complex setup with AB and MiMix, but after having issues, I've altered my setup and made it very simple. So what I do now is set each app listed above to it's own midi channel and from song to song, I switch my keyboard to the midi channel of the app I need. In an effort to make things even more simple, rather than keeping those 5 apps open, I now only open the app I am using for the given song and close everything else. Even with just something as simple as iGrand running alone, I've had audio dropouts and stuck notes. I also use a 37 key controller plugged into an iPod touch and luckily that has worked as a backup, yet it is still a major inconvenience that my main keyboard is having such issues and I have to open and close apps quickly between songs to get any sort of relief from these issues. It all makes for a stressful experience. So I'm hoping that there might be a solution that will allow this setup to work more efficiently as I know others have had success. My gigs are typically 3-4 hours so maybe that also factors into this? Maybe I need to reboot more often? Is there a specific device or approach that has made things more seamless for you?
I am running iOS 8.4 btw.
It's too bad you are seeing these issues, @mptrin . I play live with iOS and I have seen issues but they are intermittent. I think my situation and yours are apples/oranges, however, as I don't use any MIDI keyboards... I do always have a backup plan if things were to go completely south... If it stresses you out, maybe look at pure hardware solutions to make you feel more at ease?
I think the key is making sure you resolve as many of these issues before the live shows. If the stuck notes are happening during live shows, surely they're happening during rehearsal, as well? If so, you need to try out different app combinations (or hardware IO) to evaluate what components you can trust for stability.
I'm a guitarist, and my iPad isn't at the front of stage with me, though I play some synth apps through controllers - but I'm not in a position to be opening/closing apps live - nor would I want to be doing that. I've just found a few apps that seem to work well together. On my older 1GB Ipad mini 2, I ran Nanostudio (can run several instances of Eden Synth very economically), Magellan (can run 2 synth instances economically) and BS-16i with custom edited Soundfonts to trim down to only the samples needed to conserve memory. I've had almost no trouble running them for some time. I recently upgraded to a mini 4 with 2GB of RAM and have also added Nave into the mix on that iPad. With Nave on the old ipad mini 2, I used to have problems with apps dropping out - but with the added CPU and RAM, I've had no problems. I also use an Ipod Touch 6 running ToneStack for my guitar.
I don't have iGrand, and haven't done much with BeatHawk or iSymphonic, though I'd guess that the samples probably require some decent memory for use, and can cause some memory swapping. You might really want to look at upgrading to an Air 2 for the added CPU, and especially RAM - as I'll bet it would stabilize a lot of your problems. See if you can borrow one from a friend to evaluate first, if possible.
Also keep in mind that even a 16GB iPod Touch 6 makes a great device to offload some additional apps to (if they run at iPhone size). Magellen Jr, Nanostudio - and others - can run just fine as sound modules on the Touch 6, and you actually have more CPU horsepower than your Ipad 4. Use an Iconnectivity ICA4+, and both iOS devices can run into a single audio interface with all sorts of cross midi connectivity.
But - you do have to spend some time 'before the gig' validating everything for stability. And once you have it - be very wary of any app and iOS updates. Don't let any of them go through automatically.
@rad3d I'm also a guitarist, also using and ICA4+ with two iDevices (iPad4 and iPad Air2 in my case). Bias FX for the git tones. Are you running Nanostudio in AUM?
I've wanted to use Nanostudio to take advantage of some of the resource-economical Eden synths, but Nanostudio won't stay running for me in AUM.
I do have the iPod touch 6 and I was not aware that there is more CPU horsepower! Maybe I should make that my main iOS device? Is there any way to get my presets from Magellan on my iPad into my iPod without having to rebuild them? Also, can you tell me more about the Iconnectivity unit? How do connections and settings work to run into two devices? Thanks Again.
I've been experimenting with AUM, and I've also had a few issues with NS in it, so haven't moved completely to AUM yet. Everything has been solid using AudioBus and MiMix, though. Everything else I'm using seems to be solid in my AUM tests.
I'm currently using one Eden synth as a guitar synth connected to my Fishman Triple play. Mixing it in with my normal guitar in ToneStack is awesome. I use a couple more Edens for synths hooked to my other controllers.
Thanks, I'll try Nanostudio routed to AUM from Audiobus. I've been playing around with Midi Guitar 2, and it seems to work well, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to integrate it live at a gig yet without more stability testing.
Yup - an iPod Touch 6 is pretty close to the speed of my Mini Retina 2, almost 2x faster than an iPad4. But not all apps work at iPhone size, so test it out.
https://browser.primatelabs.com/ios-benchmarks
I know Magellen Jr. is a separate app, but I think it's patch compatible with Magellen - believe it's just a Magellen with a rewritten UI for iPhone res. If that's the case, you should just be able to share your bank as an email. Maybe someone who's done that can validate.
Per the ICA4, it's an awesome device. You can connect 2 IOS devices (or 1 IOS and a computer) and share audio and midi between them - while powering them. You also have 4 audio ins and 4 outs (6 if you count the Phones), and all routeable. Also includes a separate USB in for bringing in class compliant midi devices, which are also fully routeable with the iOS devices. I've hung 8 external midi devices on it, with a powered USB hub, without a problem.
You might read about some problems the ICA4 had when running 2 devices (IOS or IOS/Mac) under IOS9 up until 9.3, but that was an Apple bug and has now been resolved. I've been using the ICA4 live for almost a year now. Great interface for live and studio use. Head out to Iconnectivity's site for more info.
@rad3d are you using the ICA4 with iOS9.3?
Yes. I'd been using it with one IOS9 device, and the other as IOS8 until the 9.3 fix came in - which worked just fine. Now, all devices are 9.3.
Good to know the issues have been cleaned up with iOS9.3 as I"ve been waiting to pull the trigger on ICA4 until that happened.
@mptrin
I'm wondering if some of your issues may be midi related. Pardon me if I've missed it, but do you use a midi app such as MidiFlow?
If not, maybe you could try this to make sure your midi is working fine and going where it should go.
iOS is a cool musical instrument, but the apps you are using could pretty much be replaced by one good hardware synth. Look at the Casio PX5s. It has good pianos and some decent synths. It has 4 zones and you can control an iPad with it. It even has battery backup so can carry on if the mains lead gets yanked out. For around £600 it's great value and not too heavy either!
@Fruitbat1919, I am not using any midi apps, I do own iMidipatchbay but admittedly haven't really used it much. I'm not running any complex settings so I guess I assumed I didn't need an app like that?? Would a midi app such as MidiFlow or iMidipatchbay solve the issues with stuck notes and audio drop-outs that I'm having?
I looked at the Casio, but one of my reasons for switching to an iOS setup was to use a small controller so that I'm not carrying so much gear, and my back is still fortunate for this
I'm thinking about looking into the Iconnectivity ICA4 that rad3d suggested and maybe using that in conjunction with my iPad and a hardware module. This way I could use the hardware for my traditional tones and my iPad for the more experimental and creative applications, and have both plugged in simultaneously controlled by one keyboard, I think? Which unfortunately means spending more money 
*I play in a wedding band most of the time and do ceremonies and first dances where I can't afford to have any technology glitches. I have high hopes for the iOS capabilities but I'm just not sure that it is stable enough for my purposes.
I'm going to dive into IMP and test out a few more scenarios before I dish out any cash on a module. I appreciate the suggestions and feedback and welcome any additional ideas.
Kind of a long response, but my interest in getting into iOS was the theory it would be a great keyboard/sampler, so I'm really interested in people's experiences using it on stage. From a year of messing with it, here's where I'm at:
Pros of ipad for live keyboards:
-Amazing variety of sounds
-Outstanding quality of sounds
-Deeper options than most keyboards and effects
-Cheap! ( if you owned an ipad already)
-Portable
-Modular ( midi keys, audio interface, ipad)
-Replaceable components found in most cities
-Less intrusive than a laptop on stage
Cons:
-Instability, especially between apps. We know this is a key issue.
-Latency is greater than hardware, and can be unpredictable
-MIDI clock Sync problems
-Lots of pieces to set up
-Pieces and connections are delicate/consumer grade
-Some pieces are small and special, like CCK
-Less tactile than knobs, hard to adjust things without watching your hands, makes your performance more immersed in technology. Touchscreen can be harder to make quick adjustments than knobs.
-In most setups, battery must be charged for the ipad to work
-Updates can/will break things
-Setting up apps each time you want to play
-Lots of page switching
The more complex the setup, the more can go wrong. The ipad is a consumer device with lots going on in the background that has nothing to do with music. Be prepared to debug the ios stuff in the middle of a performance. There are lots of things that look good on paper that have mysterious issues in practice. I think it is telling that the original poster abandoned complex, multi-app setups, and now uses one app at a time. Virtual midi and core audio are not infallible.
Sorry, but there is a reason musicians like big clunky hardware made of metal, and cords with big plugs. They'll haul an amp rather than rely 100% on stage monitors. If your performance is important, reliability and consistency are that important.
That being said, if you are rehearsing lots with a consistent ios setup, and aren't having issues, and like it, and it won't train wreck a song if you need to restart an app, then go for it! Guitar strings break, cables break, tube amps blow tubes. If you are able to take care of the issues quick enough you won't lose your audience's interest. If the concerts are big/making good money, a pro move would be to have a second ipad set up and ready to go, a "hot spare".
All in all, i think it would be a good idea to use a hardware module or keyboard for the parts it would sound good playing. The nice thing there is it can be used as a backup, and you could get through a song, with a roughly equivalent sound, if the ios stuff gets weird.
Thanks for the report, @mptrin. It is rare to get a sober account of how the ios stuff actually fares under the pressures of performance. I think I've seen one band come through town in 4 years that actually used an ipad live. Everyone else just uses keyboards, or backing tracks off a phone, sometimes a sampler, occasionally a midi keyboard and a laptop running a DAW with a VST synth or two.
The one thing that's stopping me from getting ICA4 is the fact that on AKAI I have 3 USB ports on the back to connect my usb midi controllers. How would that work on ICA4?
I am really enjoying the iPad for live performance. I'm running im1 as a sound module, and since I programmed all patches on my Nord Stage, the im1 is running in the background, changing it's patches, volumes etc as I change patch on the Nord. I'm also running iKlip Stage in the foreground for all the lyrics. The Nord and the iPad are both connected to a Roland Duo Capture EX. With my current band it's flawless. I did have some problems using SampleTank in the same setup, so I'm staying away from that one now for live purposes.
Your pro/con list is more thorough than mine was and actually hit a lot of key points I forgot about. There is a lot to set up (audio hub, adapters, USB cables, 1/4" cables etc.) I also had to add a second 37 key controller with my iPod touch so that I could choose a patch for the next song on that board while playing the current song in our setlist and to use as a backup; more fiddling with devices than is practical in a live band. There is a lot that is appealing about using iOS devices but still stresses me out. For example, in my band, three of us play dinner music for weddings-drums, keys, vocals. I am providing a lot of backbone as the only one playing bass lines and chord progressions the whole set and my iPad rig shut down mid song! Luckily I was able to immediately jump to the 37 key backup without any issue but what if that had gone out? Our newlyweds pay a fair price for our services and so far I fear that iOS still lacks the stability for semi pro and pro applications as a stand alone anyway.
@Patrik, sounds like you are having success with your rig. I assume you are using sounds from the Nord. With this setup you have a marriage of hardware and software and can always fall back on the Nord internal tones in a jam.
you could connect a powered usb hub to the ica4 and use up to 8 usb midi devices.
I keep my audio interface, hubs and power racked up with a short audio snake for ins/outs, and usb and lightning cables wrapped up for easy hookup to the ios devices and controllers. That gets rid of a lot of setup worries and helps with overall stability.
I use another older iPod touch running either Setlist Maker or BandHelper. Great app that allows you to define all your songs, the patches required for all your gear for each, and then allows you to build setlists for each gig. Works well with bluetooth LE - or a midi interface and cables - and can be remote controlled with a footswitch. Use on an iPad for lyrics and even backing tracks.
I keep a duplicate iPad that can be swapped in quickly for either of my IOS devices.
You still have to prepare for all of this - but it's doable. For many, hardware may still be the right way to go.
This is a smart idea, another issue I have on the job is that I often have to move my setup from one room to another for cocktail hour then to an outdoor gazebo, etc. etc...
My iOS devices will definitely continue to have a place in my live rig in some capacity, but maybe not as my main sound module?
Still unsure which direction I'd like to go, but I'm looking into the Roland Integra which allows you to use an iPad as an interface to control features via Bluetooth with the appropriate BT device. Looks pretty nice but pricey, guess I should have played the harmonica and saved some cash
BTW - I did a test on my iPod Touch with Magellan Jr. It 'is' patch compatible with the iPad version of Magellan. I just shared my presets as an email from the iPad to the iPod Touch. No issues.
Hi Just looking at this old post, and responding with AUM has fixed this for me, No swapping between modules, just mixing them. All of them on all the time - routed to midi designer as a controller/preset selector. No stuck notes or stuttering ever (Ipad Pro). Ditched the mac and mainstage. Its switching them on and off that causes issues. I play every week for about 2-3 hours set. Love it! I just wish all apps would do patch changes like iSymphonic - holds the current patch, and new notes are the new patch, with held notes still the old - so playable!
Good to hear that has worked for you as a live solution. As an update of my rig, I have followed the advice of others in keeping things very simple:
I realize that this is barely scratching the surface of the power of iOS in live performance, but it has turned out to be a perfect mix of hardware and iOS and has saved me from any stressful situations. As I think of ways to use my iPad more, I am slowly integrating other apps and ideas but now in a comfortable platform, and knock on wood I've had no issues with crashing, stuck notes, etc. This has also allowed me to trade in my heavy 88 key board and rack module for two smaller and lighter boards that fit better on stage, in my car, and on my back