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iOS Instrument and Desktop DAW: Bi-directional MIDI (with onscreen keyboard)
I would like to ask if it's possible to send and receive MIDI (note and CC) between an iOS app's onscreen keyboard and a desktop DAW.
I had thought that with an app like MusicIO or StudioMux (the one I have), you can do just that, however, I haven't been able to get a synthesizer, DRC, to do so. My DAW is Ableton Live, and I have DRC"s virtual MIDI In and Out ports enabled in Live.
To be more specific, I would like to record note output from an iOS app (which I am able to do with DRC into Live), then be able to play back that recorded MIDI clip. It is that latter step that I can't do, as I see no MIDI output from LIve back into iOS (DRC).
Does an IOS instrument need to state that it supports bi-directional MIDI in order for apps like MusicIO or StudioMux to work?
Thanks for any help.
Comments
I'm just guessing since the only thing I have of this setup is an iPad BUT:
I think you should send midi from live to studiomux which will have the midi connection going to your device.
There is a virtual MIDI port in Live for StudioMux that's already enabled, so presumably that does just that.
I forgot to mention in my post, which I've amended now, that I cannot get bi-directional MIDI using the app's onscreen keyboard, not notes or CC, though I can send/receive MIDI notes when using an external controller, but still no CC. I would like to be able to send/receive all MIDI from using the app's.interface.
A few other cents:
I think that onboard keyboards and controls on a given synth(despite being them able to send midi) are better suited for simple tweaks on the run but when it comes to record midi, in my experience, is better to go down a path like controller>recorder/router>sound module which will always be a consistent approach because the other way "sound module built in controller">recorder>sound module is likely to have some feedback loop issues and won't work most of the times since many apps do not have midi out but for clock
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/easy-midi-turn-your-mac-keyboard/id490276037?mt=12
Although not actuaey the topic, I think it helps frame the concept in a way that it looks more equitable from a practicality standpoint.
Oh, that's concerning. Is there a way to tell, perhaps from the terminology an app uses in its description, if an app has MIDI Out, besides it saying explicitly that it had MIDI Out? For example, if it says it supports Core MIDI does that imply support for MIDI send and receive?
And just to be clear, are you saying that most apps do not receive MIDI?
Thank you.
Looks interesting, although it's not quite apt for me. Thanks.
@Marko_Alana do you use drc synth as input in the studiomux app on the ipad (and studiomux on a track in live)?
Yes, DRC is input on the iPad and StudioMux is loaded in Live. Audio comes through, but no MIDI either way when using the onscreen keyboard.
Since no one has said otherwise so far, is it normally the case that onscreen keyboards send and receive MIDI to a desktop DAW? That this may just be an issue with this app (DRC)?
I think you have to tick the synth (or 'ipad' or something like that - haven't used it in a while, because of my partly broken pc system) in the midi inputs/outputs list of the studiomux icon on your desktop and in the midi preferences of studiomux app as well ... and install some loopback device program (loopmidi)or go network session over wifi (rtpmidi) etc.
Clearing my self: many sound generating apps don't have midi notes out, or it wasn't meant to be something to rely on since they were meant to output midi(just tried DRC sending midi to sunrizer with and without midi bridge with no results. I'll ask the dev about midi out). Sequenced apps are a bit stronger on this side.
Are you referring to enabling the MIDI In and Out channels in Live's Preferences>Link/MIDI section? If so, I have done that for DRC and StudioMux. And I've chosen DRC on the StudioMux plugin window in Live.
I looked up both the apps you mentioned. Do you mean that you believe either is required for an app's onscreen interface to send/receive MIDI to a desktop DAW? I haven't tried this with other apps yet, but using the onscreen keyboard of a free MIDI monitoring app to play DRC, I am able to do what I'm asking about: record Notes into Live, send MIDI from Live back to DRC to play the recorded notes. So it seems this is an issue related to DRC, if someone can say that they are able to send/receive MIDI with other iOS instruments.
i send and receive MIDI into ableton, just like you want, all the time. i am doing it now.
i don't have DRC, but some apps simply don't send/receive MIDI.
@mschenkel.it Got it. Thank you.
That is such a huge relief to hear. Thank you so much for sharing that. So I guess it might be DRC.
With the apps that work for you, does the onscreen interface send/receive all MIDI to Live (notes and CC)? Also, are you using StudioMux or MusicIO? Just in case either app could be causing a problem and not DRC.
And is there certain terminology to look for in an app when I want this MIDI feature? I had understood, wrongly, that with StudioMux or MusicIO I'd be able to facilitate bi-directional MIDI with an app's interface with a desktop DAW, but it looks like I need to also inquire into each app's MIDI abilities too.
i am using studiomux on a mac. i do not use the studiomux plugins. the studiomux service bridges the two MIDI environments, PC and ipad. you can see all MIDI ports from either side. it also creates a multichannel audio interface for sending audio back and forth to the ipad.
in ableton's preferences you have to enable the desired MIDI ports for input or output. you also have to set up the audio interface.
then just open an audio or MIDI track and choose your inputs/outputs and away you go. no plugins.
the app terminology you are looking for is "not broken". there is nothing special about sending MIDI to the daw and back, just some apps don't handle MIDI very well.
You mean you're only using StudioMux's server app (which displays in the Menu Bar)?
I didn't realize you could still retain functionality without using the plugins as well. I believe I already have StudioMux set up just as you described, with the exception of the AU being loaded. However, when removing the AU, naturally there is no communication going on.
Perhaps when you say, " set up the audio interface," is where I diverge. I haven't done anything to my audio interface. What do you mean by setting it up?
But most of all, why would you recommend not using the plugin? Is that not what enables the essence of the program, bi-directional MIDI and audio, channel routing, etc?
Could you mention some of those apps that aren't broken? New to iOS instruments I've only tried a few and none of their onscreen interfaces work so far.
no plugins, man. come with me:
in ableton, open up the preferences
go to the Audio tab. set your ios device as the input device, and setup the channels with the Input Config button. NOTE: audio channels 1 & 2 are a stereo mixdown sent from the ios device (for some reason?!). track 1 in studiomux actually corresponds with audio channels 3 & 4.
next set up your output device. presumably you are using the Built In.
now your audio is set up.
go to the MIDI tab. turn Link on...awwwwww yeah!
enable any MIDI ports for input or output, as desired. you should see all ports located on either your pc or your ios device. if you start new apps they will create new ports and you will have to come back here to enable them because ports are disabled by default.
now your MIDI is set up.
open up an audio track. set the input to "Ext In" and set the channel to "3/4"
click the "arm session recording" button for the track and now you should be hearing studiomux track 1 and now you can record and play audio clips.
next, create a MIDI track. set the input to whatever MIDI source/CH you want to record, and the output to the MIDI destination/CH you want to send it to.
click the "arm session recording" button for the track, now you can record and play MIDI clips.
no plugins. i did some brief tests and the recordings were identical via the plugins or the above, but this is simpler. i think the plugins may be needed in other environments.
i mostly use iSEM and Voyager (via AUM, an essential app if you do not have it yet) and pages of effects. maybe NS1? i would suggest you have a look at terrific MIDI controller apps like Navichord or Honeychord and use them instead of trying to get reliable MIDI out from wonky synths. bonus recommendations: Fugue machine and Patterning.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the setup.
I set it up as you described and DRC's onscreen interface still neither sends nor receives MIDI, but using the keyboard of another app and an external controller, note send/receive is possible. So I guess it's safe to safe it's a DRC issue.
However, I don't appreciate how this plugin-less route is preferable. It seems to be functionally the same and setting up the tracks doesn't seem faster to me. What am I missing?
By environments you mean other DAWs?
I have (but haven't played with yet) or intend to get almost all of the instruments you mentioned, so that's awesome—something to look forward to.
I think I'm gonna prefer using a external controller for instruments whose UI doesn't properly communicate MIDI, that way I can still have the synth's parameter controls visible on screen to tweak. As for instruments that do MIDI properly, I assume outside of special features like chords/scales, you would stay within iSEM/Animoog/etc's native UI, otherwise you'd lose parameter control or the keyboard expressivity of something like Animoog.
Thanks!
too bad about DRC, people seem to really like it, i bet it gets an update real soon
the studiomux plugins are there to support applications that can't use the proper low level OS objects (the audio & midi devices studiomux creates). the plugins basically short circuit ableton's own routing. simpler is better.
i think i understand why you want to record from a synth and not via a controller or sequencer. you want to capture all sorts of performance details at the same time as the notes? that is a great way to go if you got those kinds of skills, but i do not and so i record notes by themselves and then add modulations by hand afterwards.
if you really want to record a detailed performance you probably want to map the desired synth controls to your physical controller.
enjoy, let me know if you have any problems
This is how it is done in Logic. The principle is the same for all DAWs though.
Yea, that's precisely why.
Thank you again for all the vital information and explanations!
@hellquist Turns out the issue wasn't anything with my setup, but just the app I'm using is broken. Thanks nonetheless for the link.
This was the exact point I was making before but I overlooked a important part of the "many sound modules do not support midi out": some have midi note and clock out but if you are willing to record also knobs and stuff I think you are out of luck without a external proper controller(HW or SW); as far as I know no synth or drum machine have mirrored cc out for their knobs/controls but patterning, then there are some hybrid midi controllers which can send cc out but not for their virtual knob(I'm thinking at Cream which can sequence CCs but it's GUI is not a knob-bay)
That is so curious and admittedly disappointing. I wonder why iOS app interfaces aren't designed for MIDI sending/receiving.
Does anyone know of an app controller that sends/receives notes and CC?
So given all that I've learned so far, perhaps I'll use two separate hardware controllers when recording iOS instruments: the really compact XKey Air 37 for note input and my Push 2's encoders to map CC. Along with the iPad, that all takes up barely any space—and looks really sexy!
It also make me wonder, how do people generally work around this issue when using only the iPad. I would guess: record the MIDI first, bounce to an audio track and tweak parameters while doing so and just accept the inability to alter cc envelopes in the DAW afterward?
Thank you.
Modstep can do both live, genome and Auria can draw and send CC automations but can't live record from their interface albeit they can record CCs from external sources.
ITB I would use one of these if I want to record notes and CCs: Modstep which is all ITB, Beatsurfing or lemur sending notes AND CCs to a Record enabled midi sequencer(genome, Auria, MODSTEP itself) which will then playback to desired devices my sequences.
Your workaround is ideal.
The answer to your question is that while most apps are designed for midi receive both notes and CCs, midi sound generating software hasn't ever been designed on any platform as both sound-and-controller as simply as they are meant to be controlled and not to control, despite it could be useful in many ways
@mschenkel.it Thank you for the advice and suggested avenues to pursue. A lot to think about.
Different Drummer sends and receives midi note, clock, and CCs.
And also ThumbJam but had some issues with CCs pass thru if I recall it right but it should already on the fix list
Thank you for the additional recommendations. I love knowing about more apps that support this type of MIDI communication!
I happen to have Thumbjam already on my wish list. Different Drummer looks promising, a meaningfully new way of approaching rhythms, like Patterning.
I mentioned several posts up that I would plan to map iOS instrument CCs to my Push's encoders, given what I've learned in this thread. However, having finally attempted to do so, I quickly realized, "Wait, how do I do this?"
Mapping desktop software hosted in Abletone Live to the Push, you simply click on the "Configure" button. The same, understandably, doesn't work with iOS apps. If anyone has done this before with Live, could you guide me through this?
Thank you.