Blocs Wave and the minor key conundrum

lukesleepwalker

@lovadamusic said:
If I'd designed the app from scratch, the root note and key would be two separate components of the loop. Major, Minor, and Neutral keys. You can filter out major or minor keys to eliminate what isn't going to work for your loop.

Nice suggestion here.

lovadamusic

@lukesleepwalker said:

@lovadamusic said:
If I'd designed the app from scratch, the root note and key would be two separate components of the loop. Major, Minor, and Neutral keys. You can filter out major or minor keys to eliminate what isn't going to work for your loop.

Nice suggestion here.

A problem might be retrofitting to work with already released packs, since they weren't designed with a parameter for key. I figure Novation must have a plan that will work for major key loops. One advantage to a key category would be no limit to types of keys. It would be relatively easy, I think, for programmers to add modes, penta/hexa scales, 12-tone, ethnic, etc.. so we can hone in on exactly what we're looking for melodically. Otherwise, I guess just naming the loops accordingly would have to do.

parallaxobject

@lovadamusic said:
I'm enjoying the app, but to make it more useful for a conventional musician, please include major keys. It's kind of like a paint program where you can import green, but not really use it with the other colors.

If I'd designed the app from scratch, the root note and key would be two separate components of the loop. Major, Minor, and Neutral keys. You can filter out major or minor keys to eliminate what isn't going to work for your loop.

I think root note refers to the base note of a chord, not the tonic key of a scale, so maybe key (tonic) and scale/mode could be the two categories, which is customary for keyboard filtering in most iOS synth apps. I'm good with them keeping it how it is, since it's easy to get it to work with major key samples already. But I can see why the addition of major keys would be a boon in a few cases.

However, I think something unique and good about the app could get lost if they make it too much like your typical key/scale selecting interface on iOS. Part of its unique goodness is having that circle of 12 keys in the global setting and being able to instantly change the key of the whole project. If you had a circle of 24 keys or more it would get less playable, and if you had it as a multiple option scroller like a lot of iOS keyboards, it would become unplayable.

Maybe the answer would be to have a circle of 12 keys and another circle of common scales.

RajahP

Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

AndyPawlak

.

rs2000

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

rs2000

@rs2000 said:

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

ZPlane is IMHO the closest candidate for polyphonic pitch shifting on iOS to happen.

Telstar5

I mean somebody probably said this right? Take a C minor chord and play an Eb in the bass and you have an Eb major chord.

yowza

@Telstar5 said:
I mean somebody probably said this right? Take a C minor chord and play an Eb in the bass and you have an Eb major chord.

Not quite, a C minor chord has C Eb G notes and an Eb major has Eb G and Bb so not the same chord. Eb major and C minor are relative keys so they use the same scale notes (for C natural minor).

CracklePot

@yowza said:

@Telstar5 said:
I mean somebody probably said this right? Take a C minor chord and play an Eb in the bass and you have an Eb major chord.

Not quite, a C minor chord has C Eb G notes and an Eb major has Eb G and Bb so not the same chord. Eb major and C minor are relative keys so they use the same scale notes (for C natural minor).

Yeah, you would have to play an Ab in the bass, and you end up with an Ab M7 chord.

RajahP

@rs2000 said:

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

Been messing around with the Dorian scale recently... it sounds so, me.
And Blocs is an iOS essential.. it’s magical to sync one’s creation to its many flavors in sound... but I want to explore that Dorian scale...

shiftsynth1

@RajahP said:

@rs2000 said:

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

Been messing around with the Dorian scale recently... it sounds so, me.
And Blocs is an iOS essential.. it’s magical to sync one’s creation to its many flavors in sound... but I want to explore that Dorian scale...

So why can't you? Dorian can be played over an aolian key, just use the 6th as a passing tone. Blues players do it all the time. Chances are the loop won't have a 6th in it anyway so the difference is often nebulous.

shiftsynth1

@rs2000 said:

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

They have stated elsewhere that it is mostly because the vast majority of the songs that are produced in the manner that they intend the tool to be used are in a minor key so they took the path that seemed the most reasonable. Like you said, 100% pitch shifting would be unreasonable for a library and for the sound designers.

Janosax

I’m not sure minor or major means anything in Blocswave, as samples can be pitched up or down but this don’t change sample harmonic structure: it’s a basic sampler, not a slicer like Reslice.

If you feed Blocswave though Audiobus or via import with your own material it can be major, minor, mixolydien, aeolien, arabic...

Also it’s very easy to change an IAP loop key independantly from general app key: just flatten this loop and it will appears in user loops browser, then change its key. You can then create some harmonic progression especially when using different scenes and Launchpad.

RajahP

@shiftsynth1 said:

@RajahP said:

@rs2000 said:

@Telstar5 said:
@launchpadforios: Still, a survey can only go so far. In pop music, as in jazz , so often minor resolves to dominant and major chords. Not being able to input major chords limits the app severly.

@RajahP said:
Sept 2018... anything like Elastik 3 for iOS ...? Wish Blocs Would...

Yes, Gadget plus Stockholm ticks many marks here.
No polyphonic Minor < > Major wizardry however.
I've moved from Elastik banks to Gadget/Stockholm and got new use out of my trusty ReCycle
You'll have to do the ReTune thing manually by tweaking pitches of slices, but at least it's partly possible.

BlocsWave might have restricted the app to Minor for an even more relevant reason: As they get most money out of sound library IAPs, the lack (?) of a really good polyphonic pitch shifting algorithm would lead to an increase of the sound library size and work for Ampify/Novation to prepare them because all instrument and vocal chords would have to be recorded in both keys.

Been messing around with the Dorian scale recently... it sounds so, me.
And Blocs is an iOS essential.. it’s magical to sync one’s creation to its many flavors in sound... but I want to explore that Dorian scale...

So why can't you? Dorian can be played over an aolian key, just use the 6th as a passing tone. Blues players do it all the time. Chances are the loop won't have a 6th in it anyway so the difference is often nebulous.

Cool.. did re-try running a C Dorian Pattern (in GR-16) synced to Blocs (in Cm)... it did sound ok this time... and not like a train wreck as the last time...
Well, that’s sorted out... Thanks..

Janosax

I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

alesswo

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Genius!!!!

Janosax

@alesswo said:

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Genius!!!!

Thanks, glad someone noticed it several years later

Obo

@Janosax said:

@alesswo said:

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Genius!!!!

Thanks, glad someone noticed it several years later

Mark it down for two of us!

Sam23

😂

@Janosax said:

@alesswo said:

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Genius!!!!

Thanks, glad someone noticed it several years later

seonnthaproducer

@Sam23 said:
😂

@Janosax said:

@alesswo said:

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Genius!!!!

Thanks, glad someone noticed it several years later

Great tip. Thanks @Janosax

onerez

@Janosax I still have no idea what the heck is going on in that video. Maybe a new one with subtitles or you talking? 😊

Janosax

@onerez said:
@Janosax I still have no idea what the heck is going on in that video. Maybe a new one with subtitles or you talking? 😊

In short: this tip allows to change pitch on specific loop bars.

On this example, loop is duplicated, then use slice mode to play bars 1-2 on loop 1 and bars 3-4 on loop 2.

When both loops are played, you will hear your 4 bars. Then you can change pitch on one of your loop (here loop 2, from memory +1 whole-tone). This will give a pitch variation on your whole loop.

You can then export loops mix to make a new pitch altered loop

onerez

@Janosax said:

@onerez said:
@Janosax I still have no idea what the heck is going on in that video. Maybe a new one with subtitles or you talking? 😊

In short: this tip allows to change pitch on specific loop bars.

On this example, loop is duplicated, then use slice mode to play bars 1-2 on loop 1 and bars 3-4 on loop 2.

When both loops are played, you will hear your 4 bars. Then you can change pitch on one of your loop (here loop 2, from memory +1 whole-tone). This will give a pitch variation on your whole loop.

You can then export loops mix to make a new pitch altered loop

Ahhhhh. Thank you!!!

RajahP

@Janosax said:
I've just made a very short video showing what can be done with Blocswave pitch shift, slicer sequencer and import/export. In short you can make new samples using several samples with key variations to make harmonic progressions. If some of you are interested I can add subtitles.

Thanks...

Can only imagine the whole @AmpifyxNovation apps as Au... Will do IAP...