Song writing (ideas, thoughts, wisdom etc)

u0421793

Probably Angry Birds.

asnor

I rarely know what I'm going to write until it's written and that can be a little stressful when deadlines are involved.

JeffChasteen

@u0421793 said:
Probably Angry Birds.

Ha!

null____void

Spontaneous shifts into other mediums, I've scripted 8 Plotagon mini-films at a little under 30 minutes total, writing them nonstop since 2am last night. Barely getting anywhere with music lately cuz all my energies are plunging into visual work (meanwhile just ransacking my old recordings for soundtracking). Instagram up, Soundcloud down.

Scatter yourself halfway in every direction so u can keep jacking yourself in myriad minor trades, etc. No master here.

goodcrumble

Lyrically, it's a stream of consciousness. I start singing and see what happens. But there has been some good advice I've read over the years such as don't get stuck cos of not having enough, just sing 'another awesome lyric/la la la' etc -Amanda Palmer

As for songs, it can come from anything but most of my inspiration comes from the instrument or program I'm using. First actual song I wrote for years came around because I bought an old Yamaha keyboard and I just loved the sound of the clarinet setting.

Recording and producing I have learned to stop reading so much advice. Production skills are handy, plug ins are great, there's always a better mix to be had. But tbh it's just too much & never ending. Too easy to get lost in it. So I learn the basics, do what I can and if it sounds good I go with it.

supanorton

Some words from the incomparable Keith Richards. This goes back to the mid 80s.

http://www.brucepollockthewriter.com/keith-richards-of-the-rolling-stones-shares-his-songwriting-secrets/

funjunkie27

I go for apps with a random button

JohnnyGoodyear

@supanorton said:
Some words from the incomparable Keith Richards. This goes back to the mid 80s.

http://www.brucepollockthewriter.com/keith-richards-of-the-rolling-stones-shares-his-songwriting-secrets/

He's a funny old bugger, but there's some good realistic stuff in there....

richardyot

The most effective songwriting technique that I've developed is stupidly simple, but for me at least has completely transformed my songs:

I imagine myself as a listener singing along to the song.

If the combination of words and melody doesn't fit with this singalong test I ditch them and try again. It sounds stupid (maybe because it is), but since applying this method my songs are infinitely more catchy. The other thing I discovered through this process is that the words are just as important as the melody: if the words are too convoluted for that singalong feel then even the best melody will fail - you can have a complex theme but you probably need simple words. The other crucial thing about words is their influence on rhythm.

Anyway, it may not work for you, but it has definitely worked for me.

Judochopjames

Just thought of another one that I consider very important but isn't necessarily obvious. Listen to your mixes in the background while your doing stuff like cleaning or something where you're busy. We rarely pay to other people's music the focus to detail we pay our own and listening to it while occupied gets you closer to hearing what everyone else will hear. This often helps me to realize a mix is too busy in parts and leads to me stripping things back.

It's kind of like how you notice minute details of your own appearance that nobody else really notices because you're so much more familiar with your own appearance, this often leads people to be self conscious about little things other people don't even notice at all.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Judochopjames said:
Just thought of another one that I consider very important but isn't necessarily obvious. Listen to your mixes in the background while your doing stuff like cleaning or something where you're busy. We rarely pay to other people's music the focus to detail we pay our own and listening to it while occupied gets you closer to hearing what everyone else will hear. This often helps me to realize a mix is too busy in parts and leads to me stripping things back.

It's kind of like how you notice minute details of your own appearance that nobody else really notices because you're so much more familiar with your own appearance, this often leads people to be self conscious about little things other people don't even notice at all.

Interesting thought.

null____void

Make an animated avatar of yourself, and have that avatar lecture you-in-the-flesh on the deficiencies in your creative process & output. I just did it via Plotagon and it was trippy as hell. Didn't really come to a solution but at least it felt like multiple divisions of my Being were working together to at least ATTEMPT to correct the wayward/meandering nature of my "Content." [I was doing all this in the context of writing but it should probably work for music/etc., and maybe even general mental health concerns?]

The example I speak of is here if anyone is interested, you really have to try it yourself though, with a close-enough-resemblance to create that good ol' 'sense of the uncanny'.

https://plotagon.com/364416

Apologies if this is cracked-out nonsense but it seems like it makes sense, to me, at this present moment.* (*SUBJECT TO CHANGE, DELETION, REGRET, APOLOGY)

JohnnyGoodyear

@rhcball said:
Make an animated avatar of yourself, and have that avatar lecture you-in-the-flesh on the deficiencies in your creative process & output. I just did it via Plotagon and it was trippy as hell. Didn't really come to a solution but at least it felt like multiple divisions of my Being were working together to at least ATTEMPT to correct the wayward/meandering nature of my "Content." [I was doing all this in the context of writing but it should probably work for music/etc., and maybe even general mental health concerns?]

The example I speak of is here if anyone is interested, you really have to try it yourself though, with a close-enough-resemblance to create that good ol' 'sense of the uncanny'.

https://plotagon.com/364416

Apologies if this is cracked-out nonsense but it seems like it makes sense, to me, at this present moment.* (*SUBJECT TO CHANGE, DELETION, REGRET, APOLOGY)

This is almost the best most personal (speaks to me or the many mes directly) thing I have seen for a long time on the Internet.

A small and localized yet surely widespread Inception.

First selfish thought was must not go look at that program, there lies six months of diversion..... But it's going to be difficult. If I disappear (literally and/or metaphorically) it will be all your faults (all three of you) and I thank you in advance.

null____void

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
This is almost the best most personal (speaks to me or the many mes directly) thing I have seen for a long time on the Internet.

A small and localized yet surely widespread Inception.

First selfish thought was must not go look at that program, there lies six months of diversion..... But it's going to be difficult. If I disappear (literally and/or metaphorically) it will be all your faults (all three of you) and I thank you in advance.

I'm surprised I ended up so enthralled with it, but I haven't wrote as much focused stuff in my entire life. I think it may have something to do with the limitation/restraints of the materials you have to work with, which maybe keep me on a sort of line (not necessarily straight), while at the same time the totally open possibilities of language add an "infinite Y axis" over the X axis of "The Selection of Characters and Sets."

I go thru periods where I barely touch music and instead go deep into video work or writing, I like the variety even if it prevents me from approaching "total mastery."

db909

I really envy you guys who start with an idea in their head. I can't seem to do that. I have to actually hear sounds and that means noodling for a bit. Usually some chords over a drum beat to start with. If I come up with someThing in my head two things happen: first it will usually be a song that I wouldn't choose to listen to myself, so I don't wanna work it out or it will be lost as soon as soon as I hear actual sound which leads me to noodle and come up with something else.

JohnnyGoodyear

@rhcball said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
This is almost the best most personal (speaks to me or the many mes directly) thing I have seen for a long time on the Internet.

A small and localized yet surely widespread Inception.

First selfish thought was must not go look at that program, there lies six months of diversion..... But it's going to be difficult. If I disappear (literally and/or metaphorically) it will be all your faults (all three of you) and I thank you in advance.

I'm surprised I ended up so enthralled with it, but I haven't wrote as much focused stuff in my entire life. I think it may have something to do with the limitation/restraints of the materials you have to work with, which maybe keep me on a sort of line (not necessarily straight), while at the same time the totally open possibilities of language add an "infinite Y axis" over the X axis of "The Selection of Characters and Sets."

I go thru periods where I barely touch music and instead go deep into video work or writing, I like the variety even if it prevents me from approaching "total mastery."

Likewise. But (as your alterego suspects) this often leads to a jackery-of-all-trades feeling ...

richardyot

The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

JohnnyGoodyear

@richardyot said:
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Oh, that's an interesting partial read (more diversion!).....

eustressor

@richardyot said:
The most effective songwriting technique that I've developed is stupidly simple, but for me at least has completely transformed my songs:

I imagine myself as a listener singing along to the song.

If the combination of words and melody doesn't fit with this singalong test I ditch them and try again. It sounds stupid (maybe because it is), but since applying this method my songs are infinitely more catchy. The other thing I discovered through this process is that the words are just as important as the melody: if the words are too convoluted for that singalong feel then even the best melody will fail - you can have a complex theme but you probably need simple words. The other crucial thing about words is their influence on rhythm.

Anyway, it may not work for you, but it has definitely worked for me.

Great point, I can totally relate to this. It's very similar to my own litmus test – to listen as if I'm a fan who's never heard it before.

Granted, this was much easier to do many years ago, when a few tokes would totally put me into this state. But even without the green leafy substance, I find taking a break, going to do something completely non-musical for a while (chores, family time, call a friend) takes me out of my biased, knee-deep frame of mind and allows me, on return, to listen with fresh ears, almost as if I'd never heard it before.

Then the only question is, would I ever want to hear it again?

JohnnyGoodyear

@eustressor said:

@richardyot said:
The most effective songwriting technique that I've developed is stupidly simple, but for me at least has completely transformed my songs:

I imagine myself as a listener singing along to the song.

If the combination of words and melody doesn't fit with this singalong test I ditch them and try again. It sounds stupid (maybe because it is), but since applying this method my songs are infinitely more catchy. The other thing I discovered through this process is that the words are just as important as the melody: if the words are too convoluted for that singalong feel then even the best melody will fail - you can have a complex theme but you probably need simple words. The other crucial thing about words is their influence on rhythm.

Anyway, it may not work for you, but it has definitely worked for me.

Great point, I can totally relate to this. It's very similar to my own litmus test – to listen as if I'm a fan who's never heard it before.

Granted, this was much easier to do many years ago, when a few tokes would totally put me into this state. But even without the green leafy substance, I find taking a break, going to do something completely non-musical for a while (chores, family time, call a friend) takes me out of my biased, knee-deep frame of mind and allows me, on return, to listen with fresh ears, almost as if I'd never heard it before.

Then the only question is, would I ever want to hear it again?

Quite so. This is the crux of the 'put it in the drawer for six months' test...

asnor

@PaulMcCartney said:
"If I was to sit down and write a song, now, I'd use my usual method: I'd either sit down with a guitar or at the piano and just look for melodies, chord shapes, musical phrases, some words, a thought just to get started with. And then I just sit with it to work it out, like I'm writing an essay or doing a crossword puzzle. That's the system I've always used, that John [Lennon] and I started with. I've really never found a better system and that system is just playing the guitar and looking for something that suggests a melody and perhaps some words if you're lucky. Then I just fiddle around with that and try and follow the trail, try and follow where it appears to be leading me. And sometimes it leads me down a blind alley so I have to retrace my steps and start again down another road."

http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2016/06/10/481256944/all-songs-1-a-conversation-with-paul-mccartney

@WilliamStafford said:
"I get pen and paper, take a glance out of the window (often it is dark out there), and wait. It is like fishing. But I do not wait very long, for there is always a nibble--and this is where receptivity comes in. To get started I will accept anything that occurs to me. Something always occurs, of course, to any of us. We can't keep from thinking. Maybe I have to settle for an immediate impression: it's cold, or hot, or dark, or bright, or in between! Or well, the possibilities are endless. If I put down something, that thing will help the next thing come, and I'm off"

http://www.ualr.edu/rmburns/RB/staffor.html

u0421793

I sit down with a beer, then another, then some more, and soon I fall asleep. When I wake up I forget I ever wanted to write a song. That’s the system I’ve always used, and I’ve never found a better system.

NoiseHorse

@u0421793 -"and sometimes when the beer runs out I have to waddle blindly down another alley retracing my steps until I find another bar."

Telstar5

I met the ACTUAL "Suzanne"

richardyot

@asnor said:

@PaulMcCartney said:
"If I was to sit down and write a song, now, I'd use my usual method: I'd either sit down with a guitar or at the piano and just look for melodies, chord shapes, musical phrases, some words, a thought just to get started with. And then I just sit with it to work it out, like I'm writing an essay or doing a crossword puzzle. That's the system I've always used, that John [Lennon] and I started with. I've really never found a better system and that system is just playing the guitar and looking for something that suggests a melody and perhaps some words if you're lucky. Then I just fiddle around with that and try and follow the trail, try and follow where it appears to be leading me. And sometimes it leads me down a blind alley so I have to retrace my steps and start again down another road."

http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2016/06/10/481256944/all-songs-1-a-conversation-with-paul-mccartney

@WilliamStafford said:
"I get pen and paper, take a glance out of the window (often it is dark out there), and wait. It is like fishing. But I do not wait very long, for there is always a nibble--and this is where receptivity comes in. To get started I will accept anything that occurs to me. Something always occurs, of course, to any of us. We can't keep from thinking. Maybe I have to settle for an immediate impression: it's cold, or hot, or dark, or bright, or in between! Or well, the possibilities are endless. If I put down something, that thing will help the next thing come, and I'm off"

http://www.ualr.edu/rmburns/RB/staffor.html

Cool articles, that both allude to that mystery which is at the heart of creating: no-one really understands where it comes from or how it really occurs, it defies analysis - even Paul McCartney couldn't tell you how to write a song.

There's a strange duality to writing: on the one hand you have to work very very hard at it, put in a lot of hours and really think about what you are doing (because the muse will not reward a dilettante), and on the other you have to trust your instincts and intuition and in the moment let things flow so that they can happen by themselves. It's fascinating, and in those rare times when you can really experience it, very fulfilling.

JohnnyGoodyear

@richardyot said:

Cool articles, that both allude to that mystery which is at the heart of creating: no-one really understands where it comes from or how it really occurs, it defies analysis - even Paul McCartney couldn't tell you how to write a song.

There's a strange duality to writing: on the one hand you have to work very very hard at it, put in a lot of hours and really think about what you are doing (because the muse will not reward a dilettante), and on the other you have to trust your instincts and intuition and in the moment let things flow so that they can happen by themselves. It's fascinating, and in those rare times when you can really experience it, very fulfilling.

Well put, I do think the 'magic happens', but for too long I thought/felt that working hard at things was somehow vulgar or inauthentic. As someone else said: No one knows what they're doing, but the good ones work at it.

Brain

I also have thought up little musical riffs or melodies at places and times where I couldn't do anything to chase the muse and being relegated to hoping I would be able to recall it later... and then there are the moments when the different snippets from over the years pop into my head. And when the muse does come with the trusty iPhone/GB combo in front of me they don't always pan out. Imagine when these things would happen way back in my high school band days and had to notate this stuff on manuscript paper! Heck, when I could I've even grabbed a scrap of paper, drawn a stave on it and notated the bit running through my head.

When MIDI showed up I honed my skills sequencing cover songs of some fave band or TV themes that I had some attachment to.

I have always had a parody bent (not that you couldn't tell from 'Stone Trek' or my recent posting of a TNG/Jetsons crossover theme) and have done a fair amount of that, in particular since using iOS music-making abilities - even so far as to get one of them played on a local radio station!

I digress a bit. I have other bits and pieces and even rough layouts for songs that I can't get over the creative/direction hump with even now.
However, I've made a lot more music lately with iOS than since 2007. All it's going to boil down to is waiting for some inspiration to strike from some corner - I have access to what I think are the best music-making tools I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

Now if I can just figure out what to do with the old XP-50...

u0421793

An interesting thing has started occurring. You know how when you think of a fragment of an idea and you haven’t got a pen & paper or audio recorder handy, and shortly afterwards you forget even having the idea let alone what the idea was. And you know how when you get older you forget a lot of things. Nowadays I’ve found that if I later remember having the idea but not the idea, mental back-tracing is possible to the point where I remember enough of it again to do the same job. This never used to happen! When I was younger if it was gone it was gone – like everyone else, so many ideas evaporated because they weren’t captured.

NoiseHorse

u0421793 are we talking about creative music inspiration here, or remembering things like brushing your dentures and flushing the potty?

JohnnyGoodyear

@u0421793 said:
An interesting thing has started occurring. You know how when you think of a fragment of an idea and you haven’t got a pen & paper or audio recorder handy, and shortly afterwards you forget even having the idea let alone what the idea was. And you know how when you get older you forget a lot of things. Nowadays I’ve found that if I later remember having the idea but not the idea, mental back-tracing is possible to the point where I remember enough of it again to do the same job. This never used to happen! When I was younger if it was gone it was gone – like everyone else, so many ideas evaporated because they weren’t captured.

This gives me hope.

This is the voice of a man called Otto I've carried around in my head for a while now. One of the saddest things I've ever heard....

http://johnnygoodyear.tumblr.com/post/145775761433/johnny-goodyear-otto