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MIDI clock vs Link?
I'm confused. If I have two Link enabled apps going at the same time i can change tempo on one and it will effect the other and loops will stay in sync, etc. but I just found out I can get Xynthesizr to essentially control gadget start and stop, which to me is pretty awesome as I can now hit record on gadget and hit play on Xynthesizr and everything is perfect, though I still have to manually set the tempo. But you can't start and stop another app with Link. Why? Is it merely about saving clicks? I'm not sure I understand this technology and how it's useful.
Comments
To clarify it seems as though half the equation is missing with both technologies. The full equation being tempo/loop sync AND start/stop
Link is a p2p kind of thing. It just checks the phase. Midi otoh is a slave-master relationship so it has start/stop and song position. Link was made to work over wifi to connect multiple hardware rather than connecting multiple software on the same device
Interesting
Think of it like link is a metronome/click track while, in some kind of way, midi is more like a music score
[Edit: please disregard ... inaccurate information.]
@mschenkel.it is right - Link is really just a metronome.
Sorry for the confusion.
Link
* Synchronizes tempo between apps and devices, while allowing any app or device to change the tempo for everyone.
* Assures that whenever an app starts playing, it comes in at the beginning of a bar or section
* Is designed primarily for jamming
* Is no help for hardware synths (? not sure on this one...)
MIDI Clock
* Synchronizes tempo between apps and devices, with one acting as the master
* Starts and stops apps, with no respect to song position.
* Is designed primarily for automated control
* Is implemented on most hardware synths
Nope. Apps like SeekBeats and some other I can't remember start spot on timing but won't wait for the bar. Much like when activating a cell in blocs wave
True. I forgot about that. Most apps I've used do wait for a bar beginning.
It would be more accurate to say that Link comes in at the right timing within a bar.
[Edit: nope.]
It really is just a metronome: someone likes to come in at 4, some others on the off beat but anyway with perfect timing
I think it's a little more than that, isn't it? If everyone else is on beat 3 of a 4-bar beat, it will start on beat three, won't it? I always thought that by the next downbeat would be the same for everyone. Maybe I was imagining that. (Or maybe I should look things up before I post!!)
[Edit: Yup. I was imagining things.]
I dunno if I'd say Link is mainly for jamming. I'm just one person but I use it exclusively for production. Sometimes I even jam while producing.
I have had link work well, surprised my self! But if you do mad tempo changes I've found that the loop start point in lets say bass line app gets off. The tempo changes but if you do like 90pbm to 200 real fast in elastic drums, the other app trips out a lil and says whoh buddy slow down that tempo change. I get confused with it but I think its better than wist but wist was ok i thought?
Link is a phase sync device; it sends the BPM info every now and then. Midi clock instead is a pulse and the recieving device has to decode how many pulses are in a minute/second/msecond and that is where jittering comes from; and doubled BPM if you double the clock input.
Link isn't for jamming or production; is just another, different way to sync stuff. But it is actually sponsored for jams, and it is very suitable for that, not having a master/slave relationship with peers. But then if you need to link a bunch of hardware devices and you are in wifi free area you are screwed.
I think the starting point of Link less of importance. They (apps) have to match tempos as soon as possible. But how soon is not known by my experience?
Clock vs Link. I think no matter how you decide which method for tempo sync, you need to think clock first. You got to have clock first for the whole play or project to start. If you don't think this way. You are in a mess later on your structures; considering you are going to use more than 6-10 apps together. The master clock app first, then all other are slaves including Link app; a kind of slave. This is ultimate advice from me.
Not if you have one of these sweet l'il babies.
http://img14.deviantart.net/2b79/i/2015/205/f/4/mkc__goro_s_fatality_by_brandontheflipqyball-d92nm47.png
For me - owning multiple devices - Link is great at syncing AUM on each iPad, and IAA sync is still the most stable and accurate method within AUM. Where it all falls apart is MIDI clock. I don't understand why iOS cannot handle a 30 year old concept that a C64 had no problems with.
I still cannot get reliable MIDI clock sync with apps like Samplr or Xynthesizr, neither of which even respond to start/stop commands. If developers even implemented IAA sync as standard, never mind Link, I could finally leave clock sync to my capable hardware and know that incorporating iOS devices will not be such a potential mess.
Syncing apps on iOS via midi clock never really worked as supposed to ...
Midi clock works really well for me with external midi to apps but not so much for just between apps.
Good bye midi clock, We won't miss you.
MIDI clock was always the weak link in MIDI.
Jitter blah blah ...
You can have 100 generals (they have the belts carved name 'Ableton Link') with troops but only 1 king.
That king held the clock!
Wanting the king die? Although he casts tyranny.
Hoping again this is not a monopoly business into future. I said in the late 'Kaikoo', now I am a prototyped 'Kaikoo2'. Hehe.
Link is much more musical than midi clock besides from being more accurate.
It's like in a band, anyone can start and set the tempo and anyone can make it slower or faster and the others follow. (I am talking about good musicians)
This is pretty slick compared to hey you follow the master click and don't fuck it up ...
Midi Clock is as useful as a Chocolate TeaPot on IOS. Link has renewed life for syncing up the apps together. We need the DAWS to make Link a Master Start/stop (Cubasis, Auria Pro, etc). At the moment Link is the best way to sync our apps together & more stable, at the moment. Unfortunately, Korgs WIST failed.
Loopy + Samplr sync not bad at all. Probably too loose for perfectionists but is IMO musically within acceptable range of error. I do not change the tempo while jamming so not bothered bout that.
Link is definitely tighter but some of my faves ain't got it so mind at peace.
One issue with link is that it won't start on other measure than 1 which I guess is a small price to pay but might be an issue to the more adventurous.
Hm not sure if this fits into the traditional daw taperecorder linear timeline way of thinking ...
tempo is flexible and doesn't have a master - so you need to time stretch all audiotracks in realtime ...
As long as you have midi based things going I don't see a problem ...
You can start stop all apps with the audiobus master start stop in the ab sidebar. You can start stop individual apps as you please ...
Tempo isn't fixed in these setups
What ever tempo u dial in in the apps is the tempo
(You may want to have a look at the tempo before you hit start)
(That's how it's supposed to work, I just tried a few things now, some misbehave - dealing with it right now
)
Ableton Link has saved the ipad (for me) in music/audio production, without it I think I would have given up thinking of the ipad as any kind of professional tool and just used it as a sketchpad. Now you can seamlessly integrate ios apps (with Link) with a pro DAW without the hassle of midi clock. This is an important step if you get into music via the ipad and want to develop and grow without leaving the ipad out of the equation.
btw Link for me is for jamming and production.
The main downside in my use of Link right now is that not all apps (other than AUM, well done Jonatan) gives you a warning when you open a file that you will be changing from the bpm in the file to the Link based bpm. Even Live doesn't do this yet (will email them).
If your working with any external gear connected to your iPad that wants a clock then you need MIDI Clock at some point.
Also remember that if you have an external controller, and your apps have midi learn for their start/stop you can map all start in all apps to the same control on your controller. That way your controller will work in a similar fashion to the master start/stop in AB remote.
All i know is from my own personal experience 'link' is a flick of an activation switch in the app settings to enable and your good to go....midi clock on the otherhand is hours of pain, confusion, trials, errors, latency, flamming, frustration, restarts and a bug testing mess.
I dont like to recount the hours i have wasted only to abandon midi clock sync all together (all hail Gadget!)
Link is by far the only solution i need as is 'just works'.
Anyone have experience with MIDI clock sync between two versions of Loopy connected via USB (through ICA4+ or equivalent)?
Link doesn't work with Cubasis and the Novation Circuit or with vst plugins running on my laptop, therefore it SUCKS WAD BIGTIME. That is until I am using Gadget with Patterning and Fugue Machine on the bus later this afternoon because then Link is AWESOME and midi clock can EAT ME - PONED-BYATCH! WORLDSTAR! UP IN YO FACE! etc...