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Z3TA+ iOS vs VST

zarvzarv
in General App Discussion

I was making a short tutorial showing how to prog sounds à la Deadmou5 with Z3TA+ on iPad. I reproduced a very simple preset of mine (copying all setting, filter, ADSR etc), but the result was disappointing in an unexpected way
I've posted the result on Facebook

Comments

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    If you were copying the settings from the VST to iOS, couldn't you have just transfered the patch via iTunes etc.

  • zarvzarv

    @knewspeak said:
    If you were copying the settings from the VST to iOS, couldn't you have just transfered the patch via iTunes etc.

    Try to do it. There are no folders evident for the app in Phoneview. Besides, the VST only ezports programs not preset. All this is not relevant though. What's really important, IMO is that app and VST function in very different ways.

  • zarvzarv

    @zarv said:
    I was making a short tutorial showing how to prog sounds à la Deadmou5 with Z3TA+ on iPad. I reproduced a very simple preset of mine (copying all setting, filter, ADSR etc), but the result was disappointing in an unexpected way
    I've posted the result on Facebook

    Here is the post URL https://www.facebook.com/paulzarv/videos/270598719996009/

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    They sound totally different, but Z3ta VST and iOS share the same presets, sounding identical, so I can only think that you made an error, copying the settings, I don't know the complexity of the original, but the number of parameters could be immense.

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

  • zarvzarv
    edited May 2016

    @MusicInclusive said:
    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

    This is indeed possible, e.g. with Thor. What I ask you: have you done it with Z3TA+?, if so please tell me how. Thank you. And, no, no .waw file. I started from scratch, initialize, etc. Actually the preset is fairly simple, some saws low passed and modulation for pluck synth.
    And, @knewspeak, I checked and rechecked the params, they are maybe a score or less, not so many. Now I'll try to MIDI drive Z3TA+ with Cubasis or Auria, to ascertain if it's Genome that causes the problem. Another check to do is to play the MIDI file with some well known working preset, like Chords of Life, and see if there is a similar difference.

  • zarvzarv
    edited May 2016

    I made the checks I was speaking of at the end of my precedent comment. Here are the results:

    1. driving Z3TA+ by Genome gives poor audio results, irrespective of the preset used by
    2. driving Z3TA+ by Cubasis gives good audio results from iPad speakers
    3. if you record in AUM from Z3TA+, even if driven by Cubasis, the result is very poor
    4. if you record in AUM from Cubasis MIDI driving Z3TA+ and using it as instrument, the result is good
    5. both Genome and AUM have no problem when the MIDI drive, respectively the audio record, when done with other synths. I have tried Magellan w/o problems

    iPad Pro 12", iOS 9.3.2

    In synthesis, the problem resides in how Z3TA+ behaves with Genome and AUM. I do not know any more about the how, at the moment. Notice that I have checked that both Cubasis and Genome import the same .mid file correctly.
    Below is a video in FB with a comparison between the sounds obtained at points 4 and 5 above. The sound for 1 and 3 is the same I presented in the original post.
    https://www.facebook.com/paulzarv/videos/271157236606824/

  • RUST( i )KRUST( i )K

    As a long time fan and advocate of Z3ta, I have had a change of heart.
    After a year and NO updates and NEVER fixed the damn Audiobus tab control --- I think it is a dead end app.

    With so many sounds and synths, I just don't have a need to be using the same old presets sounds over and over.

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive
    edited May 2016

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:
    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

    This is indeed possible, e.g. with Thor. What I ask you: have you done it with Z3TA+?, if so please tell me how. Thank you. And, no, no .waw file. I started from scratch, initialize, etc. Actually the preset is fairly simple, some saws low passed and modulation for pluck synth.
    And, @knewspeak, I checked and rechecked the params, they are maybe a score or less, not so many. Now I'll try to MIDI drive Z3TA+ with Cubasis or Auria, to ascertain if it's Genome that causes the problem. Another check to do is to play the MIDI file with some well known working preset, like Chords of Life, and see if there is a similar difference.

    Hi - I meant with Z3TA+ since that was the topic of the thread :smile:

  • zarvzarv

    @MusicInclusive said:

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:
    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

    This is indeed possible, e.g. with Thor. What I ask you: have you done it with Z3TA+?, if so please tell me how. Thank you. And, no, no .waw file. I started from scratch, initialize, etc. Actually the preset is fairly simple, some saws low passed and modulation for pluck synth.
    And, @knewspeak, I checked and rechecked the params, they are maybe a score or less, not so many. Now I'll try to MIDI drive Z3TA+ with Cubasis or Auria, to ascertain if it's Genome that causes the problem. Another check to do is to play the MIDI file with some well known working preset, like Chords of Life, and see if there is a similar difference.

    Hi - I meant with Z3TA+ since that was the topic of the thread :smile:

    Then ? How?

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:
    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

    This is indeed possible, e.g. with Thor. What I ask you: have you done it with Z3TA+?, if so please tell me how. Thank you. And, no, no .waw file. I started from scratch, initialize, etc. Actually the preset is fairly simple, some saws low passed and modulation for pluck synth.
    And, @knewspeak, I checked and rechecked the params, they are maybe a score or less, not so many. Now I'll try to MIDI drive Z3TA+ with Cubasis or Auria, to ascertain if it's Genome that causes the problem. Another check to do is to play the MIDI file with some well known working preset, like Chords of Life, and see if there is a similar difference.

    Hi - I meant with Z3TA+ since that was the topic of the thread :smile:

    Then ? How?

    I will get back to you - I'll go back through the process I used before and detail it. Bit tied up right now.

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:

    @zarv said:

    @MusicInclusive said:
    I've shared presets from VST to iOS before now with success. Is it possible the VST uses a wav file you don't have on iOS? That would have to be transferred separately.

    This is indeed possible, e.g. with Thor. What I ask you: have you done it with Z3TA+?, if so please tell me how. Thank you. And, no, no .waw file. I started from scratch, initialize, etc. Actually the preset is fairly simple, some saws low passed and modulation for pluck synth.
    And, @knewspeak, I checked and rechecked the params, they are maybe a score or less, not so many. Now I'll try to MIDI drive Z3TA+ with Cubasis or Auria, to ascertain if it's Genome that causes the problem. Another check to do is to play the MIDI file with some well known working preset, like Chords of Life, and see if there is a similar difference.

    Hi - I meant with Z3TA+ since that was the topic of the thread :smile:

    Then ? How?

    OK. On the desktop, from scratch, I created a new patch from Init. I used two imported waveforms (from the excellent AKWF collection - worth checking out). I tweaked it a bit, added an LFO, some verb, delay, then I saved the patch to a folder on my desktop.

    I then used iFunbox to copy both the patches and the waves to the Z3TA+/Documents dir under App File sharing on my connected iMini 2 running 9.3.1

    When I start Z3TA+, the wavs and the patch are imported automatically by Z3TA+ and the patch becomes available in the User Content area.

    I played the patch on both the iPad and the desktop version and they sound identical.

    Hope that helps :+1:

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive
    edited June 2016

    Here's the link to the AKWF waves BTW, which are great to use with Z3TA+

    http://www.adventurekid.se/AKRTfiles/AKWF/view/waveforms_index.html

    &

    http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/

    There's a link to download the complete bundle for free, ( although you can donate via PP if you find them useful. Not required but a lot of work went into the set AFAICS).

  • zarvzarv

    @ MusicInclusive
    Thanks a lot. What you so kindly said was really helpful to me. I'm always happy to learn.
    I followed your instructions, and they worked like a charm. Let me just add, for anyone interested, that one has to save the preset in the prog menu (I'm speaking of Z3TA+ VST in the DAW), saving as a .fxp file.
    Now what I play in Logic and on the iPad sound identical. Remember to deactivate the normalize when bouncing in the DAW.

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    @zarv said:
    @ MusicInclusive
    Thanks a lot. What you so kindly said was really helpful to me. I'm always happy to learn.
    I followed your instructions, and they worked like a charm. Let me just add, for anyone interested, that one has to save the preset in the prog menu (I'm speaking of Z3TA+ VST in the DAW), saving as a .fxp file.
    Now what I play in Logic and on the iPad sound identical. Remember to deactivate the normalize when bouncing in the DAW.

    Helpful additions I didn't detail. Thanks for topping off! :smile:

  • u0421793u0421793
    edited June 2016

    I don’t have Z3TA but could I ask, what is the wave shaping like? What dynamic control aspects are there over the wave shaper?

    (I’m on a wave shaping thing at the moment, realising I bought all the incorrect synths for it).

  • zarvzarv
    edited June 2016

    @u0421793 said:
    I don’t have Z3TA but could I ask, what is the wave shaping like? What dynamic control aspects are there over the wave shaper?

    (I’m on a wave shaping thing at the moment, realising I bought all the incorrect synths for it).

    Waveshaping is the ability to alter the shape of the wave the oscillator is using by, e.g. mixig it with other waveform, inserting random elements, and muvh more. All of these are possible in Z3ta+ directly, sweeping upon the wave window and tweaking the controls just below it. Below is the URL of a video where this is shown (very concisely indeed, at 38:30; the video is a thorough tutorial of the VST but it conveys the idea)

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    Couple of things to add to what the video clip at 38+ that @zarv noted shows.

    1. You can set up 6 different waves
    2. You can change the way the waves interact with each other - PM, FM, sync, ring - and choose which ones interact with each other.

    There's more too of course :smile:

  • u0421793u0421793

    Hmm, not really enough detail — it was just skimmed over superficially. Are those horizontal sliders able to be modulated dynamically (either by LFO/Envelopes or by another VCO or even itself)?

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    @u0421793

    Yes - totally. Per oscillator :smile:

    http://patcharena.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Z3TA+-2-User-Guide.pdf

  • MusicInclusiveMusicInclusive

    Here for example, I'm deciding what param for Ocs 3 to modulate with LFO2:

    z.PNG 271.2K
  • u0421793u0421793

    Hmm, this is very intriguing. I didn’t get this Z3TA when it was on offer last year when I could afford to buy apps, because I simply thought I had too many synths on the iPad. I still think that, of course, but this one deserves my further investigation in the future.

  • PhilWPhilW

    I wish they'd have another sale!

  • zarvzarv
    edited June 2016

    Consider, too, that every synth sounds different. And you have to like what you hear (a platitude, true nonetheless). I'll post ASAP a comparison between Z3TA+ and Thor, with similar settings (similar, I said, not identical, that is not possible). Results are pleasurable with both, but of course different.
    And yes, what MusicInclusive says is right and true, you can modulate with an inhuman amount of parameters in Z3TA+. I do not own Nave, but I think Z3TA+ is one of the best ws synth available.

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