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Ruisemaker vs ielectribe
Hi
Sequencer non withstanding what drum synth is better sounding? For example for sequencing from patterning? I started thinking about this after seeing someone's demo of sequencing multiple instances of ruisemaker in AUM from patterning. And can you automate things in ruisemaker from patterning? Not really keen on the run of the mill step sequencer in ielectribe TBH. Thanks
Comments
@Kaikoo2 the captain will be able to answer this, but my vote is Ruismaker. So much fun with patterning.
That's a tough one. They're very different beasts. There are so many ways you could answer that question. One thing though ... I don't think you can automate controls from either one from Patterning. I'd love to be wrong on that point though!
@wim You can automate the controls in Ruismaker using the CC controls sent out from Patterning. In the iElectribe manual it lists all of the controls and CCs associated with them.
@jbvdb ,
Ruismaker is concentrating on special sound, you do not use it and think it deliver something dramatical different to original sounds. It is AU which means you are playing it and specializing each one of its sounds. Each AU input slot is an audio output, theoretical 8 channels can deliver very unique effects on their own.
iElectribe iPhone is a decade dance drumming success, it has Tube to saturate by your own slider to all effects internally/externally. Plus a 'last stop' rolling step trick. In addition, it has selectable program change on midi CC. 4 synthesizers can deliver prolong envelope modulation with different speed, which will add further complexity to the effects such as prolonging reverb or delay or vowels.
I have no conflicting thinking for particular apps, you just pick them all to find your way to maximize your workflow. Having said this, I like some Gadget Acoustic drum too. If you really want me pick one, I will say it depended on your purposes for the job done. If you are doing song, I think Ruismaker is better choice. If you are doing dance floor DJ style live playing, both of them ok! I personal will take iElectribe for pure dance show to my myself
.
Cream is my choice. It has no automation, same to the Patterning. They are just hand drawing automation (semi). Maybe Praxis Beats can do randomizer job for particular note on particular track for you. I do not have that app. SPA and midiSTEPs are choices too, they are just a bit slow to my taste to find patterns.
Finally, I think no matter which you want to use at one time, your effects takes the differences. Effectrix and Turnado are both world top class, they are hard to beat down.
This is my Effectrix photo, I've not got it finished. It is just too awesome, I provide here for you to think you do not need a 100% automation, because this plays is an art form, it all depend on how you execute it by hand. For Ruismaker, Effectrix 'Attack' and 'Release' knobs on XY pads are more important to prolong the sounds by these two envelop followers effects for 14 instrumental mixers.
Cheers
Nicely done Captain.
Sonic Logic is definitely the one for you. No need a study and save time and trouble. It is for me as a better music tool.
It can do so many tasks for you. Highly recommending it.
@jbvdb ,
This video has that prolonging sub bass oomph sound I talked about above, which got me in and love it so much always.
What is that? I have Effectrix but it doesn't look like that! Did you photoshop this yourself? Or did I miss an update? I'm intrigued..
@halftone,
This is not Effectrix. This app is called Sonic Logic. The screen shot is a page made by grouping buttons and sliders with XY pads.
I use it to control iElectribe page and Effectrix page in one click away. It is just plainly a midi controller app. Having many XY pads and 14 mixers in one page is quick for tuning.
I use it alone with AUM setup.
Wow. Totally missed the midi cc out settings in Patterning.
Thanks!
Actually, pretty limited though. There are relatively few cc's available for output.
Well. Considering ruismaker is an AU you could midi learn with those cc I'm guessing ? Even if it's limited ?
The problem is Patterning only has a few CCs available for output compared to the many CCs available in iElectribe and RuisMaker for controls. Multiple RuisMakers would only mean more CCs that you couldn't automate.
Better than nothing, though.
Are seekbeats, elastic drums and attack already off the drum synth shopping list for a reason?
If you are in minimal techno or electronica, ielectribe is the reference.Pity it' s not AU yet,it would be fantastic MR Korg .Perhaps he already get those others (seekbeat elastic etc ...)
Regarding 'both' of the iElectibe Apps they both lack at least one feature that is present on the 'Hardware Electribes' of that era (Sadly 'Electribe 2' lacks this feature too) and that is 'per step editing' of the motion-control values.
The demo-video above is but just one example where detailed editing of these motion control values is almost essential (ie. for creating the melodic lines).
The Manual for my Korg ES-1 has a table tuning values and corresponding semi-tone offsets making creation of bass-lines or other melodies a breeze
AU support with full parameter list exposed as AU-Controls would make iElectribe a dream!
Attack yes, too complex and I am not super keen on another step sequencer, ruisemaker seems cool cuz I could just run it from patterning. Never heard of the others.
Both.
I find that many songs I use two "drum"apps.
One with an 808, 909, or similar and the other with LOFI shots, tones, glitches, or vocal slices.
I always have 2 rhythm sources in order to keep driving forward of track.
You have 9 MIDI CC for each of the 8 instruments in Patterning so that's a total of 72 different CC messages you can map to synth controls. If this isn't enough, I'm curious about what sort of setup you would have where you'd need more than that?
If a synth has a fixed MIDI CC implementation, you can get around this limitation by using the remap functionality of an app like MIdiflow to remap the incoming Patterning CC to one that will function for your synth.
Not at all trying to detract from ruisemaker but I reckon it's worth your while to at least check out a few videos of seekbeats and elastic drum. All great apps.
http://rugoso.com/seekbeats/
http://mominstruments.com/elasticdrums/
Seekbeats, the interface would be a total no go for me I think.
Looking into elastic drums. Seems cool, can you make weird polyrhythms in that sequence like with patterning?
Yes, though not as wild as patterning since it maxes at 16 steps, each track has an independent length. Tracks can also be set to a clock division/multiple of other tracks though so yeah, there's lots of interesting things to do. No need to use it though if you want to use patterning as a sequencer.
There are indeed 9 CCs available, and yes they can be sent from one or more pads, but as far as I can tell, those are fixed CC numbers, aren't they? If I'm wrong about this, then ignore the rest of this post and please let me know how to change those CCs in Patterning. I haven't been able to find it.
RuisMaker and iElectribe have fixed CCs for their many parameters. You can only actually control pad 6 of RuisMaker with the CCs available in Patterning. Likewise, iElectribe's CCs are fixed and there are many more than 9 of them. If they had midi learn then you could pick your 9 for iElectribe, which can only receive on channel 10, right? If RuisMaker had MIDI learn, you could control up to 9 parameters on up to 8 separate instances if you set each up on a different channel, but it doesn't, and that would be pretty messy anyway.
But, maybe I'm just missing how to remap outgoing cc's in Patterning?
For Ruismaker in AUM, you can use MIDI learn or enter them in and assign whatever CC to whatever parameter you want using whatever MIDI channel. Aside from the instrument parameters and global parameters, there are 8 parameters for each Ruismaker channel: Decay, Personality, Tune, Pan, Level, Delay, Drive, and Bitcrush. You can use eight of the assigned CC in Patterning to match to each of the 8 parameters in Ruismaker. You can match the channel for each instrument in AUM to a channel and instrument in Patterning. You can send the same Patterning MIDI information to each instance of Ruismaker but load Ruismaker with different kits/presets to get a layered effect. If there were an AU version of Patterning where you could connect different instances of Patterning to different instances of Ruismaker, then you'd have a lot more options but I'm not aware of any MIDI AU apps and believe this is not possible with the current AU specs. It is possible to mute/unmute instances of Ruismaker in this scheme by using a note sent from Patterning on the MIDI channel you want to mute to AUM and assign it as a control to mute/unmute a channel in AUM with an instance of Ruismaker.
Here are some screen shots of a partial mapping where a note with three CCs is sent to Ruismaker for each instrument in Patterning where each instrument in Patterning is sent out on a different MIDI channel:
This can take some time to setup but once you have the mappings entered in AUM, you can save it as an AUM file and it will recall the settings. Using save as, the file can act as a template for other setups with Ruismaker. Patterning can also save the MIDI settings and use save as to create a template. Most importantly you can create a one to one relationship between sounds and how they're controlled in Patterning with sounds in Ruismaker and how they're controlled. Each instance of Ruismaker, can add another layer of drum sounds to create mega kits.
The mapping of Patterning's CC to iElectribe's CC map is much more complex and probably doesn't make much musical sense as Patterning would end up being just a MIDI sequencer as the sound from Patterning wouldn't have much relationship to the sounds it produces in iElectribe. Basically, you could send MIDI CC to Midiflow, Midiflow would then use the combination of MIDI CC and channel number from Patterning to generate the 72 unique CC it would send to iElectribe to control it.
For example, Patterning MIDI channel 2 CC 74 could be remapped in Midiflow to send MIDI channel 10 CC 3 to iElectribe. This would be very tedious and not a flow I could see myself doing, but it is definitely possible. Once the remapping in Midiflow is done, it can be saved and recalled so you only have to do it once. Remembering which CC and channel correspond to which instrument and CC in Patterning could be more challenging. You could create kits with no sample sounds using file names that correspond to the controls in Patterning as they're mapped to iElectribe via Midiflow. Once again tedious but possible and you'd only have to create the Patterning iElectribe MIDI kit once and you'd receive major nerd bonus points for doing so. It would be nice if the developer of Patterning allowed you to set CC numbers as you saw fit rather than having fixed CC numbers.
^ boss mode
^^ Clearly has a brain the size of a planet.
Thanks, @InfoCheck I definitely learned some things there. In particular, I never even thought about AUM's ability to remap MIDI CCs. That alone is going to open up a lot of doors.
I'm always tempted to get into MIdiFlow for remapping such as this, but then my "too many moving parts" instinct kicks in. I'd be more likely to design the beat in patterning and then take it over to ModStep if I wanted to do a bunch of automation.
But, thanks for all that! There's some good stuff in there I'm sure I'll use.
@wim Perhaps at some point Patterning will allow you to export MIDI so you could export it to other apps. Another useful flow might be to run the MIDI from Patterning through MIDI flow to do whatever MIDI remapping and record the MIDI output. You could then export the MIDI recording into whatever apps can read and play MIDI files. Using this flow, you essentially create MIDI loops with Patterning so that when you play them you won't actually need Patterning nor Midiflow to run them. This combined with a Ruismaker file setup in AUM could be used to make some nice polyrhythms via MIDI recordings. You can create the functional equivalent of several AU Patterning instances with just one MIDI app.
A more traditional app for these sorts of pattern based MIDI flows would be Genome MIDI Sequencer where you can paste MIDI files into patterns on a grid and then place them into a song structure which can be changed on the fly. This could be especially useful if it adds Link support to what it can already do.
Thanks everyone! I decided to get ruisemaker, it seems perfect to go along with patterning!
@InfoCheck great info! Thanks a lot
One more thing, I was using patterning to sequence iSEM in AUM the other day, is that also possible with the new Moog semi modular synth? That thing looks super cool!