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I have the microbrute, minilogue, and Mother-32. First hardware synth, get the Minilogue. It does a lot for very little and you don't need extras to really get going. The Mother-32 is great but I have two and it integrates with a few more modular gear. One unit by itself is limited, after all it's one oscillator even if it has a lot of patch points and a limited envelope generator. The microbrute works great with Mother-32 and other gear. But here's the thing, from a sound design perspective the Minilogue gives you two oscillators which can sync and ring mod and cross-mod, with multiple envelopes, and as a mono-synth will layer up to 4 voices. You won't get near that with the other options. No ring-mod on Mother 32, or sync. With 2 or more you can do FM, and you can sort of do FM with minibrute-Mother-32 but not real well. Plus Minilogue is a polysynth. I have gotten pretty good classic poly sounds out of it especially running it through my old Boss CE-3 Chorus pedal. But it can do some of what the Jupiter series can do with the cross mod, and you can get FM sounds out of it as well.
As I have all of them, I think they are all great, but if you told me to only keep 1, I would choose Minilogue.
And the swirly poly sounds from the detuned VCO's on the Minilogue you will not get on digital synths.
I think so too. I can hear that from the videos. It sounds like it will last for a long time, especially if I keep buying synths in the under $1000 catagory.
You are definitely in the majority.
If I don't get it now it will be the next thing I buy.
I went to a music shop today and spent an hour with each. Minilogue was my pick, I had a great time with it and I think I'm going to buy one now. Sounded great. Moog 32 was great too.
Ah, but would any of you get a pocket operator instead / first / as an interim?
Minilogue is cool, but this is the only delay I know of, that needs de-essing!
One thing I've noticed with hardware, is that the limitations involved due to costs, often mean you will want more units. By this I mean, hardware comes into its own for specific purposes. Not much hardware these days are designed as a 'do all device'. Many that are 'do it all' type devices are digital and can in many ways be replaced by an iPad and controllers.
As many have said here, a single Mother 32 is limited by itself. Most buy hardware to fit into a certain gap perceived in their sound setup or to fulfill a specific role. These devices are great, but not ideal for starting off a hardware setup.
If by chance you just want to add some knobs and sliders, I would strongly suggest you add some good controllers to your iOS device and use the iOS synths through a decent DAC and listen via good quality monitoring. iOS synths sound bloody good through decent monitors. Analog is great for some things and real analog is generally superior for that purpose, yet most users with limited funds are probably better off learning the Moog Model 15 inside out or midi controlling many of the iOS synths by controllers.
All the above said, it's all relative to what you already own. You want that great analog sound and knobley fun? It costs. It either costs in limitations e.g. Lack of features or quality of components. Or it costs in money to build a quality setup. If it's just to own a bit of real analog gear, that's cool, just don't expect the cheap options to be streets ahead of what you can already do with an iPad, iOS synths and good DAC and monitoring.
Many will probably disagree, but the point is the question asks between two devices which serve different and specific purposes. The answers we all give will probably say more about what we would use and what we already have than what device you may get the best out of. I've bought loads of hardware years ago. Most of it was great, but as a setup it lacked cohesion, as I spent money on wants and not needs.
They sound great but are too limited for me personally.
@Fruitbat1919 The Circuit was my first piece of hardware in over 20 years. I was surprised how great it sounded running the 1/4" outputs into my computer's audio interface. So like you said I kept buying more hardware. I use my iPad and Audiobus with iConnect as an effects unit for my new hardware.
sound generation and processing is basically very similiar with digital and analog hardware.
You look for 'character', that means a kind of edginess and smoothness at the same time.
Without both, you just end with a nice tone - and 'nice' is the little bro of shit' according to a German proverb
'Character' in vintage hardware just happened, people used to build that gear by hearing experience, and not by simulation software. For economic/efficience reasons some designs were integrated into 'chips' like those Curtis and SSM parts, but those were classic circuit designs, just miniaturized.
The designer of the Access Virus synth (one if the first virtual analog hardware designs hit it pretty well in his statement: it's easy to pick (say) a filter algorithm from a mathbook and code it. Anyone can do that. But it's damn hard to pick those algorithms that really sound great... because that aren't necessarily the most precise ones.
That's why there's also 'character' in digital implementations.
By nature there's some overlapping, but generally code for an Intel CPU sounds slightly different from IOS, as processing on a Sharc DSP frequently sounds different from the one on a Motorola or Texas chip.
In fact many IOS sounds (the better ones) remind me on what I'm used to hear on tracks that were produced with UAD plugins (Sharc DSP).
With one exception (DRC) I don't know any IOS app that sounds like the stuff on my old Sharc DSP boards (Creamware), and there's not a single VST with that character.
(DRC exists on VST, too... but was already mentionened and may be the exception)
Funny thing is that there isn't a UAD counterpart either, in spite of the same DSP hardware family...
That's due to programming potentially bears an enormous span for individual 'tricks'.
You just can't judge it from the cover - listening is the only test...
Some years ago you could frankly state: analog is better... and you were right
That rule doesn't apply in the same consequence anymore.
There's crappy analog hardware (I had a drumbox once) and there's software like the PPG stuff that's impossible to tell from analog filters for my ears.
cheers, Tom
Enjoy reading through your posts Tom
@Telefunky Thanks for the informative post. I'm a noob.
I don't know much about the math but I can hear the difference you are talking about. Most of my VST and iOS synths need effects to sound good. Plugins like Diva and Omnisphere for the desktop, and the Terra synths on the iPad sound great on their own. Your comments about UAD are interesting. Too bad they don't make Apollo for the Mac.
Have you tried Model 15 or even an oldie like Nlog Pro. They sound shit hot through my monitor speakers even without fx. Maybe it's my ears have just got older and I can't tell the difference from the memory of my old hardware synths lol
You're right about the Model 15 sounding hot! Another cool thing about it is that it is unique to iOS. Patch cables on a touch screen rules! I haven't tried the Nlog yet.
I like Nlog sound wise, but the user interface sucks so I never end up using it much.
Yup.
Yup yup
I decided on the JD-Xi for now. Minilouge will be my next purchase. Thanks for the advice.
This is new : https://ask.audio/articles/gorgeous-desktop-rack-mount-designs-for-behringer-deepmind12-synth
^ yes that is even more appealing to me. I prefer desktop config. Although minilogue interests me. Depending on cost these would be 2 that I would look at for myself.
I'm getting closer to a purchase window.
Thanks for posting @Deb
I haven't found any app on iOS or desktops that sound as good as a roland rs-09, not in native instruments komplete, not in arturias v collections, and not in any gforce apps, not even the waldorf Streichfett can match it imo.
the difference is vast.
The Berhinger Deep Mind 12 is something to look forward to. A synth that has 12 analog voices has got to be at least a grand.
yes, that's correct...
but you'd need bat's ears to tell the difference from any good digital
if there's only a shot of reverb on the track, you're lost
analog makes only sense in mono or duo (imho)
if the thing is multi-part, you'd get into trouble with dial position, at least the direct view of the synth's state is lost...
cheers, Tom
This Minilogue vs Mother 32 discussion has turned into analog vs digital.
Moving back to the original question but keeping it relevant to both;
I think if you are really into sound design and want to add a solid piece of analog for a good price into a digital setup, I would choose Mother-32. I have gotten incredible results with Reaktor 6 blocks running CV and audio into Mother-32 through a MOTU DC Coupled interface. For me this is the best of both worlds because I can drive the analog circuits with digital signals and the result is a hybrid that really gives you the best of both, you can adjust the character of the final creation as you see fit. I see this as the future.
Relevant to this forum, this can be done with an IPad with Z-Mors modular but takes slightly more gear to get the digital signal out to the analog. MOTU interfaces don't work with IPad.
No, that particular aspect is about: is it worth the expense ? do you get what you pay for ? do manufacturers fulfill suggestions ?
The performing core of an IOS device is an estimated $20 piece of hardware.
Expensive parts are screen, battery and... system SOFTWARE
It's a matter of fact that IOS performs exceptionally well with audio... using the right apps.
To justify higher expenses on analog gear, the latter HAS TO deliver
Not so few devices fail on that and abuse the 'analog' attribute to suggest a quality that may not be there at all - but it's cool, for it's analog...
cheers, Tom
Agree. I don't think this is Analog vs Digital. We are just trying to show a picture where the hardware mentioned fits and where the buyer may not gain much in some instances.
I was one of the first to get a minilouge and I did not like the feel of the keyboard...sold it...a rack unit would have been better especially when you are targeting that price point...hardware in general, really is in a league different from the iOS synths...there are always tradeoffs on both sides...
I hated the keys as well at first, but now they've really grown on me. the minilogue is so light it's nice to be able to pick it up and move it to the couch or elsewhere and you wouldn't want to drag your master controller around like that.
I would like to get rack mounted too. I already have enough keyboards lying around.
Much though I’d love a Minilogue, and I certainly have hankered after it much, I personally have concluded that I should instead hanker after a Korg Arp Odyssey. The Minilogue actually has nothing in my own personally compiled “minuses” column at all, so don’t think I’m suggesting anyone should avoid it. The Odyssey however has one huge minus for me, and that is the total lack of patch storage / recall / knob recording. But still, I can overlook that. After all, the majority of the vintage synths I still have and must sell soon are devoid of anything like midi or memories or knob encoding at all. It’s just that if I were to adopt a ‘one real synth’ approach, something tells me that I’d quite like to be able to recall patch memory so that I could build a track at a time and be able to go over it again in later revisions. On the other hand, maybe that’s too much control and I should surrender to simply creating the patch again by hand from my own memory (which as many of you will know, I would have absolutely no difficulty doing, so yes, it was just me being lazy). To sum up, yes, everyone should get a Minilogue. I, however, should get an Odyssey. There you are.
I also. Oh wait, you’re talking about synths.
I'm on board for "analog !== better", especially for the cost but all an instrument really has to deliver is joy/inspiration/whatever-one-is-looking-for to make it worth the cost to a given person.
That's true. I love knobs and sliders. Mother 32 and System 1m come as what are called desktop synths I think. You get the synth facing up on a surface without the keyboard.