Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
Do a thread on it @kobamoto Let's get our ideas down for the devs to see. I believe they could take a similar approach to what Novation has done with Blocs Wave. If they can grow the app over time and supplement development costs with sample packs and set ups.
I've never said they have ill intentions, and have praised the musical functionality of the app itself. But I don't like the way the app can be controlled and updated externally, whilst pushing data to and from my device. If I run a synth app on my iPad then I want to be able to update it when I'm ready, and store my work on my own device. And if it doesn't work this way, then I want to know before I buy, or at least before it's installed itself on my iPad.
Nothing tin foil hatted about that, just a bit of cautiousness on my part.
It was not intended as a reply to you or anyone specifically, but to the general paranoia around this app.
I will also say that in these days of CCTV and Snowden, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the paranoid.
Tin Hat, related to the concept of 'plausible deniability'. Many have encouraged the 'tin hat' image as it ridicules any questioning. People are less likely to question when they consider the risk of ridicule. Tin Hat is now just a throw away comment used in the same manner, to suggest ridicule and as avoidance of ever actually answering anyone that questions something (eaaa I'm vowelving lol).
I don't see it as paranoia. With the amount of hacking going on at the moment a bit of caution on what you install is a good thing. But this app didn't make clear it was going to collect and store data from your device at the point of sale, and there was no opt-out before installing. Regardless of intent, that doesn't do much for my trust in having it on my iPad.
Fair comment imo
Read into it what you will. I'm satisfied with the case I've made. Feel free to have the last word.
You too.
It's not about making a case, or winning an argument. Some of us aren't comfortable discovering we'd paid for a connection to a web based service, rather than a standalone app on our devices - the norm for synth apps, and shared these concerns on the forum. We all have different approaches to risk, mine is lower than some.
There's no argument here and no-one's dissing the developers as it makes a great noise, just sharing information on how it works as it's a different beast to the usual synth and rhythm apps we see on here, and it's not made clear at the point of sale or installation.
This thread is 12 pages long with roughly 340 comments. I'm not going to go back through an pluck out the absurd ones. If you "found yourself" in my comments, there's nothing I can do about that.
I haven't found myself anywhere, no idea what you're on about chief. Time for a po and withdrawal.
Frumed again
I'm calling Nurse instead of PO on this one
So, the app doesn't have IAA?
On the other hand, if you have written to Apple complaining about the hidden information policy, and you receive a refund — you can still keep the app on you iPad and it will update itself perpetually.
Not that I would suggest such a thing.
Also also? It doesn't sound that good.
Nope.
thread is growing. in circles. anything concluded yet?
I believe we have withdrawn to the Longview Room where port will be served, silence observed, children banished and counsel kept.
Make mine a double.
I no longer have the app but I'm interested to see how this pans out - if it will get offline saving, Audiobus/IAA connectivity etc. and if they do anything about the privacy concerns. I'd probably buy it again if they sort things out.
i've never been but a friend's bouncer friend said the Clutch audience was always the most difficult. He would circle those dates with a big red marker and get extra sleep the night before.
yah I've seen this in games with data before (stats and such) but for full on features, that is a new one for me.
Port
Some Rum would be more appreciated
I'm really late to this party, but I saw FRUM referenced on another thread, so for $2.99, I decided it was worth checking out. I really like the app and the combination of presets and the random sound generator they provided! While I'm not a huge fan of vertical piano roll sequencers, the synth tweaking page is one of the best-designed for iPhone I think I've come across.
I've been dipping my toes into inexpensive music hardware (Volca series, Pocket Operators, Arturia MicroBrute, etc.) recently. Experimenting with hardware has really made me come to appreciate the experience of working with a specific tool, and then learning the ways to capture sound from it using interfaces and a 3.5mm cable.
Yes, every half-decent music app should have AudioBus and other basic functionality. But my $300 MicroBrute doesn't have Audiobus. It also doesn't have a built-in DAW or really anyway to record sounds other than 8 brief sequences you can trigger. But nobody faults the piece of hardware for only doing what it's supposed to do, while the $2.99 app gets beat up left and right for "only" making noise that you would have to capture live, the same way as if I was recording my MicroBrute.
I think the frustration is that the iOS devices are so powerful, so we just expect these apps to do everything. At the end of the day, it's a drum machine that costs 1/20 of what a PO-12 Rhythm costs.
@StormJH1 Microbrute does not have AudioBus! Chuck it away then!
yes, in my opinion the FRUM app is one of the best uses for $2.99 available.
Of course, there are some things I am hoping it will be able to do in the future.
Totally right !!
A website has more access to data about your computer than an app has to data about your phone. If you have third party cookies turned on, a third party website can connect you with other places you visited, interacted with etc. From there, they can build skynet (to sell you shoes you've looked at previously). An iOS app can basically know the OS and some hardware details about your phone and any details about how you interact with that app. That's it. If you grant them permission, it can collect details about your contacts, photo, GPS, etc but those are all each explicitly OPT IN and there are some very specific rules around contacts and keeping them off their servers (after a couple of epic developer fails).
All of your apps can do this. They have to tell you they're doing it but they don't have to tell you first. If you're still concerned about it, you might want to have a look through you various apps' "about" screens.
I'm fairly privacy conscious. I use a VPN when I'm in a coffee shop. I tell facebook nothing. I don't have google search history turned on. I turn off third party cookies. I generally use Firefox and have been toying with Opera now that they have VPN built in. I'm a fan of private browsing mode when shopping. Apps collecting basic analytics so they can make their apps better... I'm all for it.
With regard to the web app within an iOS app thing (separate from the data collection concern) I'm actually hoping we see more of it in the music space. Simple to deploy (no waiting for the review process), should work cross platform, and lots of interesting things are happening in the space. Next one I'd like to see is a Novation Circuit controller app for iOS.
Lots and lots and lots and lots of non-music apps go this route. If you're a small newspaper, for instance, you probably don't have the resources to create and maintain a web app and separate iOS (and android and Windows...) apps. There are libraries like Cordova, ionic, Framework 7 etc that make it fairly easy for a developer to create a standalone web app and then package it for iOS et al. We don't see it all that much in music making apps because a lot of the requisite web tech is just starting to blossom (and iOS Safari is still a bit behind the times). On that note, even within a stand alone app, all web browsers on iOS must use the native safari engine as the web component.
Well said and good advice. I do all of this and more, so maybe I am paranoid.
With Google, I make sure I'm never logged in when I search and I clear cookies regularly. I also often use DuckDuckGo first for basic searches. Their results are not as good as Google's, but I like their vibe.
With Opera, I stopped using it when I found out they sold their browser business to the Chinese. I have nothing against the Chinese people, but China is still a communist country. Bummer for me, because I was really enjoying the improvements they were making.
Haha, I know! It's such a piece of crap! Grab that SDK and get on it, Arturia!!
My comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but the point remains - I was blown away not just by the cost of hardware relative to software, but how little functionality is expected out of it. I have to think that many (probably most) of us own multiple iOS devices. I only assume that because most people here have an iPad as a primary device, and it seems like if own an iPad, you probably had an iPhone at one point or another. Well, if you have a second iOS device, run FRUM on that and capture the audio with a 3.5mm cable the way you would with virtually any hardware synth.
I don't mean to excuse that it lacks AB/IAA/ACP/MIDI - I want those features. But you just realize that if you like the app, you can imagine it being worth 3 dollars pretty easily if you don't mind hooking up a cable to record it instead of using a "virtual cable" (AudioBus).
The one omission that pretty much indefensible is the lack of a local file saving system. That really does take away from mobile experience to have to upload to some cloud thing, rather than just saving locally and working on it bit by bit.