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Quality pre amp/converters vs better Mic?
I've got $400.00 to spend on a mic.. I can get the new Sennheiser MK4 digital which is a good mic w Apogee converters/pre amp vs
The Aston origin which is probably a better mic and buying the new Zoom U-24 interface.. The newer zoom preamps are good but the apogee probably kills it.. Thiughts or advice?
Comments
I don't know the quality of the MK4 other than sheer speculations, but both AD/DA and preamps from Apogee are way better than almost any competition, and certainly better than Zoom's.
By the way, wasn't Zoom the company behind the dreaded 505 guitar multi-effect?
Don't know about that, but I do know that their recent preamps are much improved over past models . Thanks for your input though.. You're probably right
Apogee all the way, IMO
I have some issues with Apogee, but I've never had any of their stuff break or sound bad. I had recently gotten sick of dealing with some of the quirks and lack of outputs on my One and bought a relatively inexpensive class compliant interface with good reviews, it was cool until it broke about a month after I got it. It just all of a sudden started crackling and cutting out. When I plugged my One back in I instantly realized that it sounds better.
Good quality outputs/inputs cost money, unfortunately. The Duet would be the interface for someone that needs more ins and outs or stereo inputs with pro grade quality, but yeah, it's almost the cost of an iPad Pro.
you can be confident the converters in any pro-sumer audio interface are not going to be junk. There are a lot of dedicated engineers working on them, that are knowledgable about audio circuitry. I would spend money on good speakers to mix on, and a variety of good mics to record with, before worrying about the nuances of different converters.
A test: try playing some music you think sounds good out the output of the interface, and recording it back in. Compare the recording to what you played. If they sound the same, then the problem isn't the audio interface.
The Sennheiser mic looks nice, but I'd only get it if you preferred a portable setup, to a versatile setup; splitting up the interface and mic means you can use different mics, record line in sources, or record stereo.
The best mic wil get bottlenecked by shit DA converters/preamp. These days the quality of budget mics has gone considerably higher compared to 10 years ago and the choice is vast. Rode mics seem to be getting a lot of good press but there's cheaper mics by audio technica etc.
To sum it up: preamps all the way
That only covers line level signals, which is no problem for most any interface.
You can only test a mic preamp by a microphone - and that's a different story for dynamic and condensor mics... it's NOT the same.
Funny thing is that the dynamic types are way more demanding... in spite of their usually lower price.
For simplicity think of it as condensor mics already include a buffer that separates the capsule from the circuit, while in a dynamic mic the coil (either capsule or transformer) becomes a part of the input stage.
It's an entirely different type of load with rather complex physics.
Usually the signal level is much lower, so noise becomes a serious issue, in particular in environments with lot's of electronic.
If you're on a limited budget a low cost interface and condensor mic will deliver the best sound for the money, at the 'cost' of a less vivid signal, 'flat' and overpresent high mids.
An interface like a small Focusrite and an AT2035 (for example) will work quite well.
A small Behringer mixer and a no name Chinese mic will deliver complete crap.
(I've recently heard such a track... you can do better with the iPad's internal mic)
A Shure SM57 or 58 on the other hand will suffer from a Scarlett, but really shines with their ISA preamp. Which costs 5 times the amount of the the interface for a single channel.
The Audient ID22 and 14 interfaces perform equally well with both types of microphones.
(imho it's the best input stage in the 2 channel for less than 500 domain)
RME are great on condensors, but feature a very (!) clean tone, that's not always perceived as pleasing. Outstanding software quality and routing mixer.
UAD Apollo has the same preamp chipset (Texas PGA2500)
Apogee uses a different type from the THAT company (no personal experience with them), but they have some reputation... though I see their budget line rather critical.
Unfortunately the iConnectAudio interfaces only score 'good average' in microphone input.
I didn't open mine, but I'm afraid they have a horrible powersupply layout that spoils the signal.
Yet output stages are nice and they feature the most interesting mixer software of all with the ability to route IOS signals live into any OS.
There's a lot of variables that define a personal 'best choice', microphone and preamp are a team and some balance applies.
If you consider USB mics, keep in mind that pros don't buy them.
Beginners have few listening experience and usually find any mic a great piece of gear.
A very tempting situation for suppliers...
Transducers (ie speakers, headphones, and microphones) have way more variables than electronic components such as amplifiers and DA converters. Building a decent amplifier is really easy compared to building a decent-sounding mic, and I would be genuinely amazed if anyone could truly tell in a blind test if the interface to record a vocal or an instrument was made by Apogee or Focusrite, because the differences will be imperceptible. But hearing the difference between two microphones will be much more obvious, because they really do sound different.
Some interfaces have more noise than others, and that's probably the biggest drawback of cheap pre-amps, but actual sonic differences in terms of tonality don't really exist in anything with a recognisable brand name.
Often the sound from my interface improves after smoking dope. Maybe I should invest in more weed as opposed to mics and fancy interfaces?
I am a recording musician, always have been. I much rather spend my hard earned money on instruments than on gear, its only after years of recording at studios and at home I realize the importance of making the best decisions for the future of my recordings.
Hahaha ... You're songs will always sound fresh and exciting
A decent preamp is a decent preamp in my experience. I doubt the preamps in the Zoom would disappoint, so maybe just aim for the mic you like best?
after all these things are just tools...
What really sucks is that you cannot compare them by printed specs anymore
Manufacturers spread numbers based on obscure measurements that yield one common scheme: get any big figure above 100 dB and any small one below 0.01%
My iCA4+ has 6dB better SNR specs than my Audient ID22.
But in a real recording situation the ID22 delivers about 10dB less noise (measured).
10 dB may read small as a number, but it's a huge value with acoustic instruments beyond drums or brass.
Of course this doesn't matter at all to nail down a great idea that you'll record properly in a studio later.
But it does in all those cases where you're a one-person-show and do everything from writing to final production on your own.
Proper specs would make things easier, but there is moneyback for the rescue
10 dB is by no means small. An increase of 6dB will double the volume; a decrease of 6dB will cut it to the half. A 10 dB delta means almost four times more (or less) volume! The ID22 is professional gear, comparable to the Apogee Duet/Quartet or the Universal Audio Apollo. I think it has an ADAT, doesn't it?
A good mic always sounds good . Maybe not as good when the pre amp isn't great ,but better than other average mics.
A medium quality mic will not sound much better with great pre / converter . (just an opinion)
imho (or according to personal taste) it's better than the Apollo because it uses discrete preamp stages, that have a 'fuller' tone compared to the integrated PGA2500 preamp chips.
For curiosity sake I've disassembled the ID22 recently and was much surprised about the clean layout, solid mechanical construction and high quality power regulation.
Indeed it has both Adat input and output, all accessible from IOS, but they don't provide the dedicated control panel (like Win or OSX), it's pure class compatibility that makes it usable under IOS.
There are 3 dedicated output converters and the analog channels have professional grade (balanced) hardware insert/returns.