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cubasis crackling when freezing tracks or when mixing down
plays fine in session, fair amount of au and minilouge instances, but highest spikes are about 75% cpu. no crackles upon playback. when i mix down it's snap crackle pop. i increased latency, made sure that anything not needed was removed (background audio, whatever...) and have even started taking out fx. when i freeze, either an audio track or a midi track, crackle is back. totally discouraged with cubasis. tried everything i could think of for almost 2 hours last night. unless anybody has any ideas will begin the painstaking process of recording individual tracks into auria and be done with cubasis.
Comments
Hi vpich,
Please make sure to file a bug report in our forum that includes the steps to require the issue:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=183
That way we're able to give the issue a repro at our end.
Before posting the bug report, please make sure to double check if your issue is related to the following article:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=183&t=92984
Thanks,
Lars
thanks, will do
I didn't read that article, but I have noticed when freezing tracks from Rock Drummer that too high input levels create crackles, even though playback doesn't. Backing down the output level of rock drummer cured it.
Maybe something to try.
Cubasis rep being the first to reply to a post on a Sunday. Gotta love it.
Ya, you rock Lars much like Cubasis rocks. Good to see you here giving the forum so much help. Thanks for both all the assistance and for Cubasis in general.
Thanks for filing a bug report in our forum, vpich!
Please make sure to add a step by description there and we'll give it a check!
Thanks
Lars
Hi thanks. Yes. I definitely will, that post had been sent in for approval before you answered. Will submit the formal issue on your forum and update this one as it goes on. I have an Ipad pro 12.9. Seems to be an au implementation issue. I found that the individual outputs of a couple ruismaker drums to be maxed, lowered those, (although full velocity should not cause distortion if the channel volume is set correctly). Also i took ddmf out. These steps were done together so not sure what did it. However crackling started in mixdown before any drums kicked in. Right where ddmf did. But definitely the ruismaker drums were crackling when freezing.
But underlying issue is that if there is a gain staging/distortion issue somewhere in the chain those should be listenable while mixing/monitoring. Here every thing sounds as it should and it surprises you when listening to the mixdown. When freezing tracks with my trials i see that the volume is significantly louder while freezing, clipping, than when playing. Seems to be boosting. If that is due to say an eq boost it should clip always.
Thanks for such a quick response lars.
Please repost the support solution from Cubase team, if it helps resolve your issue! Thanks.
Hi vpich,
Freezing Ruismaker tracks should not create any issues.
We have been in exchange with Bram before releasing 2.0 and use his apps quite often for testings.
Gave Bruismaker a freeze check myself this morning, original MIDI and rendered track output is identical here.
Best,
Lars
Well not here. Inised ruismaker on another track and didn't have the issue. But i don't think it's a plugin problem. More a host issue necause if it sounds fine upon playback it should not clip once it goes theough the mixdown. The mixdown should be what i'm hearing. Will try to reproduce this evening when i get a chance.
On the audio file the target audio file after freeze is clearly visually louder and clipping.
An easy test is to lower the RuisMaker master volume (in the plugin, not in the channel) to be sure there's no way it can clip. Even if this is below optimal - just to see what happens. I suggest it again because I have seen this with other apps and lowering the volume removed the crackles. Its an easy test.
Yeah that has seemed to work. But that's manually compensating for something that is sounding well. If anything is overloading, like a ruis drum or a boosted eq then it should crackle on playback. On one audio file i removed all inserts except the eq. Still crackled. Then lowered the only little hump over unity (less than 3 db) and it froze with no crackle. So this boosting, in fx or au, is causing it......but the mixer shows it way below red even with the boosts. So there seems to be an amplification during the freeze/mixdown process. Also, with proper headroom i should be able to boost frequencies with the eq.
All this will added to the cubasis post and will keep both updated just waitinf for a proper computer to cut and paste easily
I know this is a long-shot but is the 'project' where the crackle happens 16-bit or 24-bit?
(Theoretically 24-bit should have a bit more 'head-room' than 16-bit).
16 bit. Keep in mind that i keep overall levels at about -6 db so that i have space left to properly master. So it shouldn't be a headroom issue.
Ok. I've not had any issues freezing AUs apart from the things mentioned in other threads with the frozen audio being 'off the grid' when frozen and some IAA-Instruments producing silent output but those have not been Cubasis fault but rather the IAA-Instrument developer issues, even with IAA-Instruments the results are a bit off the-grid and it takes a lot of fiddling with the midi-delay values prior to freezing to get them on the spot (adjust, freeze, check, adjust, freeze, check until it matches). My temporary work-around is to use modSTEP to create audio-files that I can import to Cubasis. But I trust the Cubasis team will work things out all in time.
Well ... I didn't want to say this before, but in light of Samu's comments, it makes sense. I can reproduce the same behavior in Auria Pro using Rock Drummer. In fact, that's where I first saw it, not in Cubasis. This would tend to confirm that it is more on the IAA side than on the DAW. 16bit to 24bit conversion could be a clue. If both daws are playing back at 24bit internally, they'd have the headroom. But maybe they're not converting to 24bit when freezing and mixing down.
That seems far fetched, but as I saw the exact same thing in Auria, it might make sense.
I don't have enough knowledge about all the different IAA-Instrument and AU-X with regards to what format their output is but It could also be an issue converting 32-bit floats and higher internal sample rates to either 24 or 16-bits and the current sample-rate of the project... (I know this is far-fetched).
I don't know if that's far fetched. Still wrapping my head around it. But a conversion error somewhere in the chain could be it. That would explain why it's not audible before mixing/freezing. Maybe if i keep volume half way always it never happens again because i'll stay away from that clipping conversion zone.