Using SampleTank for Multiple Orchestral Articulations

Reid

SampleTank has multiple articulations for the various instruments in Miroslav Orchestra.

In a typical virtual instrument for the computer, these articulations would all be in one patch, and you can switch while playing by hitting keys that are outside the instrument's range (keyswitching).

So how to get the most out of these various SampleTank articulations? One way is to set up a Multi with the various articulations put on different MIDI channels. Try to get a pleasing mix so that the sounds blend when you switch from one to the other.

Then you need to use some method of playing them on different MIDI channels. In this case I have loaded SampleTank into AUM, and I am playing the regular cello patch with my MIDI controller, and I'm playing the "Cello Trem" patch with the AUM keyboard, which is set to channel 2.

I play a melody with my right hand, and when I want to trigger a tremolo I touch the AUM keyboard. This is more musical than just playing with one articulation. And if there are breaks in the music you can easily change the MIDI channel in the AUM keyboard.

Of course this technique can be used with any sound in ST that has variations, like changing from one guitar to another.

[Deleted User]

I like.

MusicInclusive

OK for playing live, but sadly, not very useful for playing from MIDI (from a score)

One can do similar things with iSymphonic Orchestra, but, again, one has to separate out the MIDI channels per articulation. It's very very painful to do that for anything more than a few bars.

Consider a 150 bar piece where there are many changes from pizzi to arco to staccato and back, sometimes in the same bar. Each note (or set of notes over time) for each articulation has to be scored separately and / or notated in MIDI in say Cubasis or Auria Pro in a different track, where each track corresponds to sending to a different MIDI channel.

It's one of the bugbears with iOS that there's no sensible way to handle articulations and expressions because there is no mapping mechanism.

Notion is the only real solution (Symphony Pro too, but Notion is the more mature product at doing this, and has a sample library that's based on the desktop LSO samples). There all the articulations, expressions and dynamics are handled for you.

So, as I say, this is OK for a little live playing - same as one can do in Thumbjam for example, and construct something ad-hoc, it's almost useless for any extensive score. I wish it wasn't so.

However, the good news is that Notion's LSO samples aren't at all bad (the solo violin's a tad squeaky, but the rest are pretty good) and one can create complete rendered pieces directly in Notion.

I've given up on trying to use things like SampleTank to achieve this. It's not bad for certain uses. And, if one wants to insert a bit of staccato cello here and some pizzi violin there, it's all cool but, not for orchestrating and rendering a score or extensive MIDI. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too much work.

Additionally, there's just not enough memory or CPU power in iOS to handle replicating the above across multiple instruments, esp. when it's MIDI-mapped per channel to the articulations. One very quickly runs out of MIDI channels, even on a larger scale orchesstral multi-instrument like iSymphonic Orchestra. One has to choose among a handful of instruments and articulations. Moving to AU won't help because then memory and CPU become an issue, even if one could target different instances.

Which, all leads me to admire what the Notion folks have done. Yes, it has the disadvantage that it's a locked in solution - i.e. both notation / MIDI and rendering are all in the same app, but, it's a very workable solution for all that.

Below is a short piece I did some time back that's rendered directly from Notion - with lots of instruments, articulations, expression and dynamics. Nothing else required except writing the notation

I'm not being critical here of SampleTank. Rather the limitations that surround it.

As a result, though one of my main foci is doing orchestral work - and even on iOS - I do not own the M2 IAP for ST. Nor do I own iSymphonic Orchestra. I do have Notion - including the complete IAP set. Further more detailed rendering I do on the desktop, (using desktop libraries - higher resolution samples and many more of them - 100s of GB for a single vendor's orchestral library alone usually).

I have played with this - if you check my FB timeline, and dig down a bit you'll see some places where I've worked with SSO samples in a similar way in Auria to orchestrate Mozart's K.201

And, I've also played with interactive work with Thumbjam (and a little with SampleTank with other orchestral samples - I did get the M1 IAP when it came out originally, then realized the issues and stopped making the attempt a good while ago now.) Interactive stuff can be fun to do. Sure not knocking that - all good.

Hope that's vaguely helpful. Been here doing / done this a bit. Sharing my experiences some is all

Telstar5

Isymphonic orchestra. S Samplerank Orchestral? Which is better?( W IAP's fully purchased )

Reid

@MusicInclusive Agree 100% . No way am I doing this. I'm doing all my orchestral work on my PC.

Because I'm doing that, I wondered how anybody would get access to the articulataions in SampleTank.

People do talk on this forum about the limitations of SampleTank not having multiple outputs. This is a way some people might be able to get different sounds out of it at the same time. Doesn't have to be a big classical piece. It could be a guitar solo with different tones.

@Telstar5 I don't have iSymphonic. People seem to think it sounds better than the original SampleTank Miroslav. But Doug Woods is sick now and hasn't been doing videos, so nobody has heard the sounds of the $49 new Miroslav 2. Get well soon, Doug!

One thing isn't in dispute--Miroslav gives you more instruments for less money.

Telstar5

Thanks! I meant Sampletank w the new orchestral sounds

Telstar5

Are Dougs new videos on YouTube?

Reid

They are on YouTube, but Doug hasn't put up a new video in a month.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDU1ULcAb0OMgv0Xi0CbYYw

Schimanski

My way to handle different articulations is this: I play and record the midi with a "neutral" sound on midichannel 1.
Then I make as many copies of the whole track as I need articulations on separate miditracks.Then I just mute
or unmute the notes on the different tracks (midichannels) to my needs.And if something doesnˋt sound natural
I can always change the midichannel of each note afterwards.Works pretty good for me with any multitimbtal
app.

Nkersov

Multiple Orchestral Articulations sounds like OMD on steroids!

Nkersov

@Reid said:
They are on YouTube, but Doug hasn't put up a new video in a month.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDU1ULcAb0OMgv0Xi0CbYYw

Yeah. Our friend's peepers are not good at the moment. Hopefully the docs can fix it for him. I'm sure I'm not alone in missing Doug's videos.