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Orfium: A Soundcloud/Bandcamp Alternative

1P181P18
in General App Discussion

https://www.orfium.com/

I'm posting this here both to be informative, to show that it exists, but also to see if anyone has any experience with it. I know Soundcloud is massive, and Bandcamp is pretty well stocked too, always nice to see other things emerge as far as I'm concerned.

«1

Comments

  • LucidMusicIncLucidMusicInc

    I'm all for an alternative to Soundcloud. The site says gotten so bad with spam accounts, taking away groups, and inability to upload tracks with the app or the mobile website, such a headache.

    Band camp is awesome but it only accepts wav which is a problem when uploading on a weak connection, ways tend to be up there in the 100 mb range.

    I like the design of this new site. Bookmarked!

  • 1P181P18

    Yeah I've had it bookmarked for a while now, just haven't gotten around to investigating it.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    I like the spammers on Soundcloud, without them I'd only have about three followers, and even those would be my other accounts.

  • kitejankitejan

    I'm on Orfium - just about no plays on anything (which is about the same number of plays I get anywhere else to be honest). I think it has potential - but I find the upload process really messy, especially when trying to do on iOS over weak wifi links (I was trying this when on holiday in the summer - not nice). Other features just dont seem to hot at the moment - but it could be a useful middle ground between Soundcloud (which I've out of love with) and Bandcamp (which is somewhat overkill for my needs).

    Maybe if the Orfium people integrated uploads from some iOS apps like Audioshare they would have a winner on their hands. At least in the iOS community :-)

    PS I also like the Soundcloud spam accounts - its always nice to get a message telling me how they appreciate my music and would I like to click on this link to see more of them :smile: Obviously not dodgy at all....

  • pichipichi

    A message from my latest Soundclown fan: 'I love to tease you and to make you feel like you are in Heaven' :p

  • kitejankitejan

    @pichi said:
    A message from my latest Soundclown fan: 'I love to tease you and to make you feel like you are in Heaven' :p

    Maybe we should collect all the spam messages and produce a nice track with their words as the vocals....

  • ecamburnecamburn

    One of the things I don't like about Soundcloud is that it's listener-centered as opposed to musician-centered. I can understand why they do it that way, but the sites I've found most valuable in the past have been places like Soundclick, which are really more organized around musician exchange.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    I miss Groups in Soundcloud - that was a really good way to find new music, and even attract a few listeners.

  • Igneous1Igneous1

    Unfortunately, soundcloud gets steadily worse, as any kind of meaningful 'community'. Still very useful nonetheless.

  • pichipichi
    edited December 2016

    @MonzoPro said:
    I miss Groups in Soundcloud - that was a really good way to find new music, and even attract a few listeners.

    Totally agree. There is a way to join 'playlists' however. Which can get you a bunch of plays. This is one I joined for electronic music: https://soundcloud.com/electronic-group

  • kitejankitejan

    @pichi said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    I miss Groups in Soundcloud - that was a really good way to find new music, and even attract a few listeners.

    Totally agree. There is a way to join 'playlists' however. Which can get you a bunch of plays. This is one I joined for electronic music: https://soundcloud.com/electronic-group

    I didnt know that. Does it work for the "free" version?

  • pichipichi

    @kitejan said:

    @pichi said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    I miss Groups in Soundcloud - that was a really good way to find new music, and even attract a few listeners.

    Totally agree. There is a way to join 'playlists' however. Which can get you a bunch of plays. This is one I joined for electronic music: https://soundcloud.com/electronic-group

    I didnt know that. Does it work for the "free" version?

    Sure. Just follow the instructions on the page.

  • IcepulseIcepulse

    @pichi said:
    A message from my latest Soundclown fan: 'I love to tease you and to make you feel like you are in Heaven' :p

    I fail to see the problem! :#

  • Paul16Paul16
    edited December 2016

    Thanks for the tip off on Orfium.
    Just signed on & am finding the webpage a bit of a chore on iOS, spent several minutes trying to persuade an unresponsive drop down menu that 'acid house' was not my selected sub category.
    Is it me or just de rigueur for editing artist pages to be a pita ??!?!??!
    Both soundcloud & bandcamp also seem to have multiple foibles unless your on desktop.

  • decibelledecibelle

    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

  • Paul16Paul16

    @decibelle said:
    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

    Stuff that then.

    Now, where do I delete my account ?

  • decibelledecibelle

    @decibelle said:
    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

    Typical.

    Terms say:

    "You may delete your Account at any time, for any reason, by following the instructions on the Site."

    Can I find "the instructions on the Site"? In the FAQ? Linked from the terms, or anywhere?

    Can I hell.

    Damn terms link me only to my own profile. Is there a "Delete account" button or section or anything?

    If there is, it's hiding, or out to lunch (at 10:43), or on sabbatical in Guam.

    Intercoursing reproductive organs, the lot of them.

  • Paul16Paul16

    @decibelle said:

    @decibelle said:
    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

    Typical.

    Terms say:

    "You may delete your Account at any time, for any reason, by following the instructions on the Site."

    Can I find "the instructions on the Site"? In the FAQ? Linked from the terms, or anywhere?

    Can I hell.

    Damn terms link me only to my own profile. Is there a "Delete account" button or section or anything?

    If there is, it's hiding, or out to lunch (at 10:43), or on sabbatical in Guam.

    Intercoursing reproductive organs, the lot of them.

    Same, nowhere in sight - just emailed them asking how to.

  • pichipichi

    Ouch. I had this site bookmarked. I guess I won't be making an account now after all.

  • decibelledecibelle

    @Paul16 said:

    @decibelle said:

    @decibelle said:
    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

    Typical.

    Terms say:

    "You may delete your Account at any time, for any reason, by following the instructions on the Site."

    Can I find "the instructions on the Site"? In the FAQ? Linked from the terms, or anywhere?

    Can I hell.

    Damn terms link me only to my own profile. Is there a "Delete account" button or section or anything?

    If there is, it's hiding, or out to lunch (at 10:43), or on sabbatical in Guam.

    Intercoursing reproductive organs, the lot of them.

    Same, nowhere in sight - just emailed them asking how to.

    Oh, so glad it wasn't just me who couldn't find it. A sly and sneaky way to chain people to their site if you ask me. Also I found some spelling errors in the terms so I think they maybe put them together on the cheap or with ineffectual legal services.

    I emailed them at [email protected] including this paragraph along with advice to fix their incomplete FAQ and absent instructions:

    "Your Terms are too harsh for me. Please delete my Orfium account and consider this message formal notice that my participation in each and every clause of your Terms completely terminates as of 11:15 GMT 07 December 2016."

  • 1P181P18
    edited December 2016

    @decibelle said:
    Holy crap the terms are seh-VEEEEEERELY harsh, e.g. all users irrevocably waive all attribution rights to their own works, for the "Company" to exploit, in perpetuity.

    I signed up but am deleting my account right now.

    https://www.orfium.com/terms-of-use/

    Pretty sure you're reading that wrong. Wouldn't make any sense for them to do what you think they are doing. Here are the terms spelled out for the layman:

    https://www.orfium.com/welcome/#advantages-section

    https://www.orfium.com/welcome/#perks-section

  • kitejankitejan
    edited December 2016

    Yes you can't delete your account,. You have to ask. I did originally sign up for Orfium (and LogAmp) then decided I didn't want yet another online presence so tried to close both of these. LogAmp was fine - but Orfium I couldn't. I eventually emailed and (to cut long story short) they convinced me to stay.

    Can someone explain in simple terms what the licence things actually means? And if I have already uploaded music what then?

  • decibelledecibelle

    @kitejan said:
    Yes you can't delete your account,. You have to ask. I did originally sign up for Orfium (and LogAmp) then decided I didn't want yet another online presence so tried to close both of these. LogAmp was fine - but Orfium I couldn't. I eventually emailed and (to cut long story short) they convinced me to stay.

    Can someone explain in simple terms what the licence things actually means? And if I have already uploaded music what then?

    These are the terms I think are most relevant to us, with my interpretations mixed in:

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    2. ACCESS TO THE SITE
    2.1 License. Subject to these Terms, Company grants you a [...] revocable, limited license to use and access the Site solely for your own personal, noncommercial use.

    1. USER CONTENT
      3.2 License.
      (a) You hereby grant [...] to Company an irrevocable, nonexclusive, royalty-free and fully paid, worldwide license to reproduce, distribute, publicly display and perform, prepare derivative works of, incorporate into other works, and otherwise use and exploit your User Content, and to grant sublicenses of the foregoing rights [...]

    You hereby irrevocably waive (and agree to cause to be waived) any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to your User Content.

    You grant the Company the right (a) [...] to use the processor, bandwidth, and storage hardware on your device(s) [...], (b) to provide advertising and other information to you, and (c) to allow our business partners to do the same.

    (b) [...] we grant you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to make personal, non-commercial use of the Company's Service [...] This License shall remain in effect for a period of twenty (20) years unless terminated by you or The Company.

    They allow us access to the site only for personal reasons, any commercial money-earning is explicitly excluded.

    They can revoke their permissions to us at any time.

    We can revoke their access to our uploaded content, never.

    They claim our permission to exploit our content without crediting us, without compensating us, without informing us, however they want, forever.

    Our licence to use the site can last for 20 years unless terminated by "The Company" or us, which I highly reccommend us do.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    3.3 Acceptable Use Policy. The following terms constitute our “Acceptable Use Policy”:

    (a) You agree not to use the Site to collect, upload, transmit, display, or distribute any User Content [...] (ii) that is [...] vulgar

    They reserve the right to decide what is "vulgar" and use that as a reason to take whatever action against us they see fit, and they can decide this later, whenever they want.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    4. INDEMNIFICATION. You agree to indemnify and hold Company (and its officers, employees, and agents) harmless, including costs and attorneys' fees, from any claim or demand made by any third party due to or arising out of (a) your use of the Site, (b) your violation of these Terms, (c) your violation of applicable laws or regulations or (d) your User Content.

    Company reserves the right, at your expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter for which you are required to indemnify us, and you agree to cooperate with our defense of these claims.

    You agree not to settle any matter without the prior written consent of Company. Company will use reasonable efforts to notify you of any such claim, action or proceeding upon becoming aware of it.

    If somebody random sues us for anything in any way connected to this site, they claim our permission to be held innocent of any involvement and all wrongdoing.

    Even being held innocent and uninvolved in these hypothetical cases, they still claim our permission to grab total control of all legal defense, for which they demand we pay all legal costs in full, even if their legal strategy hurts us, and they get to exclude us from all decision making.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    5.3 Release. You hereby release and forever discharge the Company (and our officers, employees, agents, successors, and assigns) from, and hereby waive and relinquish, each and every past, present and future dispute, claim, controversy, demand, right, obligation, liability, action and cause of action of every kind and nature (including personal injuries, death, and property damage), that has arisen or arises directly or indirectly out of, or that relates directly or indirectly to, the Site [...]

    IF YOU ARE A CALIFORNIA RESIDENT, YOU HEREBY WAIVE CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE SECTION 1542 IN CONNECTION WITH THE FOREGOING, WHICH STATES: “A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLEMENT WITH THE DEBTOR.”

    They claim our permission to be released from all prosecution forever for everything they ever do to us now or past or future, and California residents must reject the protection of the law that protects them from exactly these legal bull excrements.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    8. TERM AND TERMINATION. Subject to this Section, these Terms will remain in full force and effect while you use the Site. We may suspend or terminate your rights to use the Site (including your Account) at any time for any reason at our sole discretion [...]

    Even after your rights under these Terms are terminated, the following provisions of these Terms will remain in effect: Sections 2.2 through 2.5, Section 3 and Sections 4 through 10.

    They claim our permission to be bound by their ridiculous and illegal terms while members of the site as well as forever after.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    9. COPYRIGHT POLICY
    Please note that, pursuant to 17 U.S.C. § 512(f), any misrepresentation of material fact (falsities) in a written notification automatically subjects the complaining party to liability for any damages, costs and attorney's fees incurred by us in connection with the written notification and allegation of copyright infringement.

    If they steal our work and we enforce our copyright against them, if we make any written mistakes in the case then they demand we pay them damages and costs and legal fees.

    Yeah, right, so friendly aren't they?

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    Hexacorp Ltd. Designated Copyright Agent:

    Orfium
    Attn: Legal-DMCA Agent
    P.O. Box 646
    Pacific Palisades
    CA 92072
    Email: [email protected]

    Their "Designated Copyright Agent" has no name, is an anonymous post office box in California, and by the way this company appears to be operating without any office or physical address, which to me seems pretty suspect.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    10.3 Payments, Cancellations, and Cooling Off. If you have a paid subscription, your payment to the Company will automatically renew at the end of the subscription period, unless you cancel you Paid Subscription through you account setting before the end of the current subscription period.

    Unless/until we take special steps to figure out how to protect our payments with the special secret settings they accidentally hid somewhere, all our payments to them will automatically repeat, perpetually.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    10.4 Mobile Service. The Service permits you to store cached content on up to three (3) personal computers, mobile handsets and/or relevant devices (collectively “Devices”) while your Account is active. You may not transfer copies of cached content [...] you agree to accept the Mobile Terms in addition to all the terms in this Terms of Use agreement. If there is a conflict between the Mobile Terms and this Terms of Use agreement, the Mobile Terms will govern your license with The Company in as narrow a capacity to resolve the conflict.

    There is no mobile app right now, nor terms for it, so they claim our agreement to anything they make up later.

    Anything at all.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    11.2 Dispute Resolution.
    (g) Waiver of Jury Trial. THE PARTIES HEREBY WAIVE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL AND STATUTORY RIGHTS TO GO TO COURT AND HAVE A TRIAL IN FRONT OF A JUDGE OR A JURY, instead electing that all claims and disputes shall be resolved by arbitration under this Arbitration Agreement. [...]

    (h) Waiver of Class or Consolidated Actions. ALL CLAIMS AND DISPUTES [...] MUST BE ARBITRATED OR LITIGATED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS [...], AND CLAIMS OF MORE THAN ONE CUSTOMER OR USER CANNOT BE ARBITRATED OR LITIGATED JOINLY OR CONSOLIDATED WITH THOSE OF ANY OTHER CUSTOMER OR USER.

    They claim our permission to take all our grievances against them away from the protection of a court with a jury, into a private court with one arbitrator (decider)

    If they should ever happen to, y'know, just by accident, rip off and profit from a bunch of other people's work (e.g. ours), instead of ganging up together and suing which would help us more, they also claim our promise to legally operate against them one at a time only.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    (i) Confidentiality. All aspects of the arbitration proceeding, [...] shall be strictly confidential.

    (l) Survival of Agreement. This Arbitration Agreement will survive the termination of your relationship with Company.

    They claim our promise to keep our yaps shut about their offenses against us and how much we or they won or lost against us in court, and to be bound by this crappy agreement forever.

    =============

    PERSONAL DISCLAIMER
    I am a private individual with zero education in the law. I'm just using my "I know how to read and speak English with lots of words" skills to interpret this shady piece of doo doo in my opinion allegedly.

  • decibelledecibelle

    @decibelle said:

    @kitejan said:
    Yes you can't delete your account,. You have to ask. I did originally sign up for Orfium (and LogAmp) then decided I didn't want yet another online presence so tried to close both of these. LogAmp was fine - but Orfium I couldn't. I eventually emailed and (to cut long story short) they convinced me to stay.

    Can someone explain in simple terms what the licence things actually means? And if I have already uploaded music what then?

    These are the terms I think are most relevant to us, with my interpretations mixed in:

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    2. ACCESS TO THE SITE
    2.1 License. Subject to these Terms, Company grants you a [...] revocable, limited license to use and access the Site solely for your own personal, noncommercial use.

    1. USER CONTENT
      3.2 License.
      (a) You hereby grant [...] to Company an irrevocable, nonexclusive, royalty-free and fully paid, worldwide license to reproduce, distribute, publicly display and perform, prepare derivative works of, incorporate into other works, and otherwise use and exploit your User Content, and to grant sublicenses of the foregoing rights [...]

    You hereby irrevocably waive (and agree to cause to be waived) any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to your User Content.

    You grant the Company the right (a) [...] to use the processor, bandwidth, and storage hardware on your device(s) [...], (b) to provide advertising and other information to you, and (c) to allow our business partners to do the same.

    (b) [...] we grant you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to make personal, non-commercial use of the Company's Service [...] This License shall remain in effect for a period of twenty (20) years unless terminated by you or The Company.

    They allow us access to the site only for personal reasons, any commercial money-earning is explicitly excluded.

    They can revoke their permissions to us at any time.

    We can revoke their access to our uploaded content, never.

    They claim our permission to exploit our content without crediting us, without compensating us, without informing us, however they want, forever.

    Our licence to use the site can last for 20 years unless terminated by "The Company" or us, which I highly reccommend us do.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    3.3 Acceptable Use Policy. The following terms constitute our “Acceptable Use Policy”:

    (a) You agree not to use the Site to collect, upload, transmit, display, or distribute any User Content [...] (ii) that is [...] vulgar

    They reserve the right to decide what is "vulgar" and use that as a reason to take whatever action against us they see fit, and they can decide this later, whenever they want.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    4. INDEMNIFICATION. You agree to indemnify and hold Company (and its officers, employees, and agents) harmless, including costs and attorneys' fees, from any claim or demand made by any third party due to or arising out of (a) your use of the Site, (b) your violation of these Terms, (c) your violation of applicable laws or regulations or (d) your User Content.

    Company reserves the right, at your expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter for which you are required to indemnify us, and you agree to cooperate with our defense of these claims.

    You agree not to settle any matter without the prior written consent of Company. Company will use reasonable efforts to notify you of any such claim, action or proceeding upon becoming aware of it.

    If somebody random sues us for anything in any way connected to this site, they claim our permission to be held innocent of any involvement and all wrongdoing.

    Even being held innocent and uninvolved in these hypothetical cases, they still claim our permission to grab total control of all legal defense, for which they demand we pay all legal costs in full, even if their legal strategy hurts us, and they get to exclude us from all decision making.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    5.3 Release. You hereby release and forever discharge the Company (and our officers, employees, agents, successors, and assigns) from, and hereby waive and relinquish, each and every past, present and future dispute, claim, controversy, demand, right, obligation, liability, action and cause of action of every kind and nature (including personal injuries, death, and property damage), that has arisen or arises directly or indirectly out of, or that relates directly or indirectly to, the Site [...]

    IF YOU ARE A CALIFORNIA RESIDENT, YOU HEREBY WAIVE CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE SECTION 1542 IN CONNECTION WITH THE FOREGOING, WHICH STATES: “A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLEMENT WITH THE DEBTOR.”

    They claim our permission to be released from all prosecution forever for everything they ever do to us now or past or future, and California residents must reject the protection of the law that protects them from exactly these legal bull excrements.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    8. TERM AND TERMINATION. Subject to this Section, these Terms will remain in full force and effect while you use the Site. We may suspend or terminate your rights to use the Site (including your Account) at any time for any reason at our sole discretion [...]

    Even after your rights under these Terms are terminated, the following provisions of these Terms will remain in effect: Sections 2.2 through 2.5, Section 3 and Sections 4 through 10.

    They claim our permission to be bound by their ridiculous and illegal terms while members of the site as well as forever after.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    9. COPYRIGHT POLICY
    Please note that, pursuant to 17 U.S.C. § 512(f), any misrepresentation of material fact (falsities) in a written notification automatically subjects the complaining party to liability for any damages, costs and attorney's fees incurred by us in connection with the written notification and allegation of copyright infringement.

    If they steal our work and we enforce our copyright against them, if we make any written mistakes in the case then they demand we pay them damages and costs and legal fees.

    Yeah, right, so friendly aren't they?

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    Hexacorp Ltd. Designated Copyright Agent:

    Orfium
    Attn: Legal-DMCA Agent
    P.O. Box 646
    Pacific Palisades
    CA 92072
    Email: [email protected]

    Their "Designated Copyright Agent" has no name, is an anonymous post office box in California, and by the way this company appears to be operating without any office or physical address, which to me seems pretty suspect.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    10.3 Payments, Cancellations, and Cooling Off. If you have a paid subscription, your payment to the Company will automatically renew at the end of the subscription period, unless you cancel you Paid Subscription through you account setting before the end of the current subscription period.

    Unless/until we take special steps to figure out how to protect our payments with the special secret settings they accidentally hid somewhere, all our payments to them will automatically repeat, perpetually.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    10.4 Mobile Service. The Service permits you to store cached content on up to three (3) personal computers, mobile handsets and/or relevant devices (collectively “Devices”) while your Account is active. You may not transfer copies of cached content [...] you agree to accept the Mobile Terms in addition to all the terms in this Terms of Use agreement. If there is a conflict between the Mobile Terms and this Terms of Use agreement, the Mobile Terms will govern your license with The Company in as narrow a capacity to resolve the conflict.

    There is no mobile app right now, nor terms for it, so they claim our agreement to anything they make up later.

    Anything at all.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    11.2 Dispute Resolution.
    (g) Waiver of Jury Trial. THE PARTIES HEREBY WAIVE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL AND STATUTORY RIGHTS TO GO TO COURT AND HAVE A TRIAL IN FRONT OF A JUDGE OR A JURY, instead electing that all claims and disputes shall be resolved by arbitration under this Arbitration Agreement. [...]

    (h) Waiver of Class or Consolidated Actions. ALL CLAIMS AND DISPUTES [...] MUST BE ARBITRATED OR LITIGATED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS [...], AND CLAIMS OF MORE THAN ONE CUSTOMER OR USER CANNOT BE ARBITRATED OR LITIGATED JOINLY OR CONSOLIDATED WITH THOSE OF ANY OTHER CUSTOMER OR USER.

    They claim our permission to take all our grievances against them away from the protection of a court with a jury, into a private court with one arbitrator (decider)

    If they should ever happen to, y'know, just by accident, rip off and profit from a bunch of other people's work (e.g. ours), instead of ganging up together and suing which would help us more, they also claim our promise to legally operate against them one at a time only.

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    (i) Confidentiality. All aspects of the arbitration proceeding, [...] shall be strictly confidential.

    (l) Survival of Agreement. This Arbitration Agreement will survive the termination of your relationship with Company.

    They claim our promise to keep our yaps shut about their offenses against us and how much we or they won or lost against us in court, and to be bound by this crappy agreement forever.

    =============

    PERSONAL DISCLAIMER
    I am a private individual with zero education in the law. I'm just using my "I know how to read and speak English with lots of words" skills to interpret this shady piece of doo doo in my opinion allegedly.

    Oh, I forgot,

    @Orfiumgreedybags said:
    3. USER CONTENT
    3.2 License.
    (a) [...] You grant the Company the right (a) [...] to use the processor, bandwidth, and storage hardware on your device(s) [...], (b) to provide advertising and other information to you, and (c) to allow our business partners to do the same.

    They claim our permission to use our hardware and internet and ourselves as products to market to "our business partners", for purposes of spamming us with ads, data-mining our infos and tracking our histories and future actions across the internet.

    Big Business: 1
    Human Privacy: 0

  • kitejankitejan

    Hmm. Cant say I'm happy about all that. I take it things are somewhat better on the Bandcamp/Soundcloud front? I had a quick look and they seem to be more "humane" for want of a better word.

    Isn't this the old "if you aint the customer, you're the product"?

  • AlterEgo_UKAlterEgo_UK

    Hmm, glad I didn't upload many tracks - and I have now managed to delete all of them even if I haven't managed to delete my account.

  • decibelledecibelle

    Holy crap I just got a massively annoying auto message from Orfium.

    Even if I were to reply to it as per their suggestion, my original message gets auto deleted from the text! So to keep continuity I'd have to paste it in again.

    Plus they auto subscribed me to their Google group?!?!

    Oh. My. Intercoursing. Gerd.

    Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

    I guess it doesn't matter that my original message was 8 hours 17 mins earlier (even taking time zones into account), and that I clearly indicated I'd already done all their "RTFM" suggestions?

    I never got an "auto" style reply before that wasn't instantly generated.
    I haz a big suspicious.

    What an intercoursing waste of my time. Plus insulting.

    I quote:

    @Orfiumtimewasters said:
    Date: 20:47 PST 07 Dec 2016
    From: Orfium Support support@orfium.com

    Hello!

    Your request (9995) has been received and you can count on a real live intelligent human to follow up soon to help you. In the mean time make sure to check out our brief Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page as it might contain the information you seek:

    https://www.orfium.com/faq/

    If you found the answer to your question in the FAQ above, then please kindly reply to this email and let us know. Otherwise you can also reply to add additional comments to your request.

    It rarely happens, but sometimes technology breaks. We normally respond within a couple hours or less so if you don't hear back within two business days then something went wrong so please send another request. Thank you!

    =====

    @decibelle said:
    [my original message (auto removed from replies)]

    To: [email protected]
    Date: 03:25 PST 07 Dec 2016
    From: decibelle

    Hello there people of Orfium dot com and Hexagon Ltd,

    Your Terms are too harsh for me. Please delete my Orfium account and consider this message formal notice that my participation in each and every clause of your Terms completely terminates as of 11:15 GMT 07 December 2016.

    As your Terms indicate "You may delete your Account at any time, for any reason, by following the instructions on the Site."

    If I could find any instructions I'd have done it myself. However, I looked very carefully but found nothing, not in the FAQ, not linked from the Terms (link opens my profile settings but no "Delete account" button visible), not at the top nor foot of the web page, nowhere.

    You might want to consider fixing that.

    Sincerely,

    "decibelle"
    (plus my email address)

    =====

    @Orfiumtimewasters said:

    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Orfium Support" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

    This email is a service from Orfium. Delivered by Zendesk

  • decibelledecibelle

    Update: Human Reply With Name Plus Bonus Extra Bull Doo Doo!

    @OrfiumBulldoodoo said:

    From: Orfium Support support@orfium.com
    Date: 01:39 GMT 08 Dec 2016,
    To: decibelle

    ... Please type your reply above this line ...
    Your request (9995) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.

    Drew (Orfium)
    Dec 7, 17:39 PST

    Hello Decibelle,

    Thank you for your email. I will take care of deleting your account. To be honest, we have the most liberal terms of any music platform. All of our services can be opted-in or out at any time, and you have set your consumer access policy to be a liberal or strict as you want (you can give your music away for free or charge whatever price you want for it). Thank you for your feedback. We hope to see you back on Orfium one day.

    Sincerely,

    The Orfium Team

    Um, "To be honest, we have the most liberal terms of any music platform."?

    Orly? Srsly?

    Dear Drew Orfium Hexagon PO Box Resident,

    Thank you for your butt spew. I will take care of filing it appropriately. To be honest, I have the most cordial invitation to Bite Me of any platform peeptoe shoe. All your "Most Liberal Terms" can be opted-out of Your Butt at any time, and you have set my invitation policy to be as liberal as your Chickenpoo (you can free of charge whatever you want opt-in or out corpo jargonspeak butt crack). Thank you for your feedback confirming how much I want to run far away from you bargepole. I hope to see you back on Considerate Human Being planet one day soon.

    Sincerely,

    Hiding Behind Company Name (Ltd)

  • decibelledecibelle

    Just logged in, my account is showing as "Inactive", not deleted!

    Arg arg arg.

    When people's actions and words mismatch, and they proceed as if I were invisible and inaudible, I get very upset.

    WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET AN ACCOUNT DELETED AROUND HERE YOU LYING INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE-USERS SO THERE.

    - Orfium - Frustrating Musicians To Death now and forevermore. -

    Actually I'm thinking that "Drew", the "But we're so much better than everybody else!!" dude is the person responsible for most if not all of Orfium's doo doo.

    I could be wrong, in my opinion, allegedly.

    Please take those terms away from me right now kthxbye.

    Oh look I discovered big fonts.

  • decibelledecibelle

    Update:

    Account still "inactive". Emailed again:

    ===

    From: decibelle
    To: Orfium support@orfium.com
    Date: 01:19 GMT 09 Dec 2016
    Subject: Re: [Orfium] Re: Delete my account please

    Hello Drew Orfium Hexagon,

    1) Delete my account, i.e. remove it permanently. I can see that my account is inactive, not deleted. How much more do you need? I decline to participate in your terms, ever, I deeply deeply regret ever signing up with you, delete me permanently from your site. Please.

    2) Re your alleged "most liberal terms"
    Dude, exploiting your users and their content forever with zero attribution and zero compensation, that is not "liberal", it is "exploitation" and "theft" and as far as I know, "illegal". Read your own terms. From a creator's perspective, they suck.

    Please delete my account permanently.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    decibelle.

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