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Comments
Agreed.
Nay, nay and thrice nay. The controller is (was) only crippled because of NI. There is no impediment to using their software, legitimately, except for NI policy.
Goof for you, I'm pleased you've had a good experience.
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Nope. The product will work as stated, if NI release the code. That is not the responsibility of CEX. All they can test for is that the hardware lights up, and all they are responsible for IMHO, is if the hardware failed.
EDIT - Further to this, I just received a very nice e-mail from CEX, offering me a full refund. So they are doing their bit. The thing is, I actually love the hardware, and so am willing to workaround NI.
....but not forgive them.
The product doesn't work as advertised if the license that comes with it hasn't been transferred correctly. It's like selling a car with no legal documentation.
Tracking down the original owner, getting them to confirm they have sold on the product, and then transferring the license to you as the new owner is not the responsibility of NI. Their contract was with the original purchaser, not you, so they have no legal (or moral, in my opinion) responsibility towards your purchase from a third party reseller. It's up to the seller to transfer the license to the person buying the hardware (in this case CIX), and then their responsibility from that point when they re-sell the product for a profit.
I think this thread is very unfair on N.I.
Not at all. NI have no policy against transferring software licenses, only a policy that demands the original owner relinquishes his registration. Nor do NI forbid the resale of hardware. Indeed, they cannot. What someone does with their own property is none of NI's business.
So as far as I'm concerned they are denying me access to something I can prove I now own, because someone else won't say they no longer own it!
But kitten butterfly threads about a single instance of a company are ok with you?
Because reasons?
I was looking into picking up a Maschine, and I was surprised by the wide variation in price. Many were expensive, but some were really cheap on Craigslist in New York. In every case of the bargains, though, the buyer posted the caveat: "no software." Coming to this casually, I kind of assumed that wasn't a big deal, or was easily fixed, as in "no power supply cable." But it is not easily fixed, as @Nkersov knows.
It does seem to be an onerous requirement. I've read stories of perfectly good Maschine consoles being junked at studios because somebody lost the box or the paperwork. I mean, is it really impossible for NI to make software available? This seems to be a business model born of the bad old LimeWire days, when software was guarded by dongles and proprietary interfaces. It seems out of step today though.
That said, I think if you don't return it, you lose the moral force behind your complaints against the company.
Isn't NI's policy just to stop the owner downloading multiple licences for the hardware, so they can't then, sell them on. If so that's seems sensible. I think Ableton have a similar policy with Push, the serial gets linked to your account.
At least NI and Ableton let people sell on stuff (at no cost to themselves - AFAIK). I think it's a case of the previous owner sorting things out before selling it on. I should say (with a bit of prior research) this is a known issue.
I love NI. They are very clear about their policies. As someone who's had hardware stolen, I appreciate their approach to this too.
Not a good look on your part either. You're going to try and hurt the company on social media because things didn't go your way? It's the seller's fault, not NI's.
Sausage.
As far as they're concerned the original purchaser still owns the license. If he hasn't relinquished ownership, he has only sold the hardware and still retains a license for the software.
Instead of attacking NI for protecting their users licenses, you should be condemning the original seller and the reseller for conning you into buying a dud.
The software element of an NI product is at least half its value. My Maschine hardware would be virtually worthless without the software, and updates that come as part of the package.
Just so everyone knows, this is what you have to do to transfer a NI license.
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209566129-How-to-Request-a-License-Transfer-ID-to-Sell-Your-NI-Product
Good find.
The moral of the story, and maybe this should be reflected in the thread title, is never buy second-hand NI hardware without a transfer ID.
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Hurt a company the size of NI? One man's view can't really do that. I am simply expressing dissatisfaction at a policy I disagree with and did not know of prior to buying. If I can warn others about this, then I've done a good job. Either way, NI will no doubt continue.
I think buyer beware is appropriate here. It sounds like @Nkersov could get money back from CEX if desired but focusing on trying to get NI to change it's software/hardware policy seems misguided as protecting the software license seems aimed at maintaining the integrity of the NI product. If one copy of the software were not associated with the hardware then NI would lose a sale each time someone sold their hardware. If this happened often enough, NI would go out of business and/or have to raise their prices.
It's good the hardware/software license issue has been raised but going after NI seems very misguided. It seems like an unwillingness to take responsibility for being an informed consumer especially when you can get your money back.
If you don't like NI's hardware/software license policy then by all means feel free not to buy their products. Personally I appreciate that even if someone stole my NI equipment, the thief wouldn't get the software for free too.
You know that software transfer for second-hand NI products is free of charge, right?
And you know that the "give up or shut up and deal" strategy is proven unsuccessful for advocating change, right?
I really don't understand the popularity of advising people to accept two crap choices and remain dissatisfied quietly.
What's so offensive about advocating improvement anyway?
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Huh? Are you suggesting that every time somebody sells a vintage Precision bass that Fender should see a cut?
I have used N.I. products both new and used. I bought a Maschine Studio used on Ebay. I made sure to communicate with the seller to confirm that he would unregister the software after receiving payment. I also knew that if there was a problem I was protected by Ebay's customer satisfaction policies. But I had no problem registering the unit with NI after a couple of emails. I even had success registering a legacy product which NI no longer produce, NI Komplete, which I picked up from the used bin at Guitar Center.
Bottom line is NI's registration policies are fair and clear. As others have pointed out it is up to the original buyer to unregister it and if he doesn't then the middle man seller would have to sell it as-is without software. That is how used products are listed at Guitar Center.
I think it's appropriate to have a free software license transfer with the hardware. I don't see how being able to sell the hardware, keep the software license, and have the new hardware owner also have a software license would make economic sense. The easier the license transfer is, the better for everyone in my opinion.
I fail to see where any improvement is being advocated for here. Suggesting NI should just transfer the software license to you because you own the hardware even if the previous owner hasn't transferred the license makes no sense to me. The original owner should have the option of keeping their license and/or selling their hardware. If there's any improvement to be had it would be NI investing more resources into letting people know about their license/hardware policies.
Their current license transfer process does not seem very hard to do.
If you buy something second hand and the seller claims it's both the hardware and software they're selling then that's what you should be getting, if not, then a refund is appropriate. Expecting NI to provide you the license the seller promised amounts to dragging them into a sale they had no part in. Go after the seller who made the promise and took your money not NI who didn't.
Fenders don't come with a software license and I think a free license transfer process is the way to go. Without license transfer, if ten people sold the same piece of hardware with associated software, the one piece of hardware would lead to ten copies of the software. No matter how many times the Fender is sold, there's only one.
@Nkersov
You should have done your homework before buying - simple as that. NI aren't doing anything untoward and the title of this post isn't appropriate. Loads of people buy NI stuff second hand without any issues.
The "recipient caused their own hardship" attitudes I see in this thread give me a big srs sad.
Just ware the software if they are such dicks about it.
Owning the license allows for some great cross grade deals on NI Komplete. That's why some Maschines are sold as midi controllers only, no software included. The more knowledge you have, the more it makes sense. Although, I will admit there is complexity involved since each company has slightly different policies. Did the original owner have his gear stolen? Did he cross grade to anything else? If you don't know these answers, then you can't rationally judge NI.
There is a list of things 3 miles long to complain about NI, this is not one of them !
If people co-operate.
If not, if as in this case the original owner can't be bothered,
which is what NI are telling me, then there should be flexibility. Otherwise honest traders and buyers are penalised.
Anyway, I've made my point, and now intend moving on. Thanks to all who participated in tbe thread.
And how exactly do they know it isn't stolen ?
You have a receipt, which means literally nothing.
Their system protects buyers, just because you feel p***ed because you now have to get your money back from CEX, does not mean it is a bad system, in fact, they may well have just saved you from owning stolen gear, ever think of that ?
Like i said, if you want to bitch about NI, just ask, I will give you some absolute beauties hahaha
Basically, someone is annoyed that the shop didn't check someone had sold them something in a useable state, and now insists that the company that produce the product make it easier for thieves to shift stolen goods, instead of considering the victims of crime, who would rather that no one would be able to profit from their loss.