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Fab Filter Pro-MB vrs Fab Filter Pro-L
Having just bought Pro-MB and already got very encouraging results using the mastering presets, I'm wondering if those more advanced than I - of which there are many - could venture an opinion as to whether adding Pro-L would achieve much more? At least, in my early dabbling, before I really know the full capabilities of the app.
I'd go for Pro-L while on sale, but almost $30 is a amount that is possibly better for me to save for another day, if I'm not going to get much out of Pro-L without putting a lot of time in. So, what is the expert view? Is Pro-L best left to those who already know what they're doing to a much higher degree, or can happy dabblers like me still benefit?
Comments
No expert, and will no doubt make the wise ones cringe/flinch, but in my clumsy no-nothing hands I suddenly made real obvious progress with L. Sometimes the subtleties are wasted on the young and we need -initially at least- the big boots.
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Interesting. Always useful to hear from someone who does not claim expertise, yet can still hear a significant difference.
Pro-L is something I could see using all the time for mastering, Pro-MB I only reach for 1-2 times a year. So yes I think it's worthwhile myself.
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Thanks, that is encouraging.
I actually use Pro-L in a "live" setting on two tracks simultaneously when I'm on my guitar and playing along with a track using Anytune Pro+. I'll set Pro-L on each channel (i.e, guitar and Anytune) and set the limiter's gain for each such that the gain reduction is between 4dB and 6dB. This way I can be sure I'm getting the best possible signal from both channels without peaking. (I usually set the output to something around -0.30dB.)
I had no idea how useful this could be to me until I demo'd it on Logic Pro X. Now I always use it at the end of my guitar's signal chain (before the master channel).
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Looking good for me pressing the buy button. Any more views out there?
I'm no expert, but here are some thoughts. First, Pro-L is one of the best limiters around, both the desktop version and the iOS version. It's dead simple to use and extremely transparent. There are no rules for how / when / where to use it, of course, but it can be a great companion to Pro-MB on your master channel. MB handling frequency specific compression, and L handling your overall peak limiting and loudness maximizing. Ultimately, if you're doing a lot of mixing and mastering out of Auria, you're going to want a limiter to make your mixes loud enough while keeping things under control. And you'd be hard pressed to find a better limiter for this job. I'd say go for it if you plan on doing the tasks I just mentioned. And check out FabFilter's YouTube channel for some REALLY good tutorials on how to use all of their plugins. I've learned a wealth of knowledge from those tutorials. And the fact that their plugins for iOS mirror their desktop plugins means everything they describe will translate over to your workflow.
If you have any interest in mastering your own material, or trying at least to master the art of mastering, you'll want Pro-L.
Why didn't you tell me this a long time ago when I didn't ask?
There are no rules for how / when / where to use it, of course, but it can be a great companion to Pro-MB on your master channel. <
Okay, I'm sold. Off to the Auria Store. Thanks for the opinion and advice, peeps.
The best thing about Pro L is how easy it is to use. You can just stick it on the Master Bus and forget about it if you so wish. Of course if you watch the tutorials on the FabFilter YouTube channel you will pick up lots of great tips, but it's very easy to use.
Got it, but Apple have made a mistake in the cost. I think I just got ripped off, where the dollar cost was levied as pounds, instead of converting.
Installed the Fab Filter 30-day eval bundle in Logic Pro. Been playing with Pro L and also find it easy to use and quick to improve just about anything. One question about Pro L... there's a preset under "Acoustic" for "Film Score Stereo Field Manipulation". However, I don't see any controls for manipulating the the stereo field. The "advanced" controls are only attack, release, look ahead, etc. Are there some other advanced controls for manipulating the stereo field with Pro L?
I already bought Timeless 2 and Saturn for iOS. Great fun with those. I dismissed Volcano 2 because many others seem to have passed on that one, but I just played with the desktop eval version in Logic it for a good hour and thinking I might dig that one too. I wonder why it appears to be one of the lesser popular ones? My present desires might be covered with Saturn for now, but Volcano 2 is also tempting me.
To those using Logic Pro... when my time runs out on my evals of Fab Filter and I want to delete/uninstall them... is all I need to do is go to Library/Audio/Plug-ins/VST and simply drag all the Fab Filter VSTs to the trash? Or, is there an uninstall routine I need to run?
In the adanced panel there's the options for Channel Linking, namely transients and release. The less these are linked the more Pro-L will limit each channel based only on it's dynamic information. IE, the limiter reacts to what it hears in each channel instead of applying the same settings identically to both. It can help maintain a sense of width and stereo information, but with some material it makes the music feel like it's jumping hard from speaker to speaker. That's why they let you dial in the amount, enough to preserve your imaging, but not so much it jumps all over the place if you're limiting things very hard.
@Tarekith saw the channel linking... that makes sense... thx
Good stuff. Thank you.
Pro-MB and Pro-L are fantastic in any mastering chain.
Pro-MB is PERFECT for the initial compression on ANY sort of mix given its range settings. You can have a range of roughly -10dB, ratios roughly 4:1, and harder knee settings for EDM-type genres, -3dB, ratios from 1.1:1 to 2:1, and softer knee settings for ambient, or whatever you decide to do is whatever.
Just allow it to breathe a little bit, even if the mix IS EDM.
Of course use Pro-Q in-between to balance the spectrum and such.
Then, Pro-L is the PERFECT way to ramp up the mix to commercial levels or pleasant levels (depending on your tastes). It's the ultimate say-so in a mastering chain. You could technically have an average RMS of -3dB to -4dB for modern EDM (yeah, it's smashed harder than Richard Burton at a New Year's Eve bash), an average RMS of -12dB or lower for Ambient stuff (use K metering on this and let the track friggin BREATHE!), and around -7dB to -8dB for the EDM levels I like to set my mixes at (slightly squashed, but not squashed like a cramped elevator with that gassy fat dude who always manages to make that 99 flight ride damn near impossible to survive). Right, don't squash your mixes too much mate.
Your technical advice is now to my knowledge base, and I shall endeavour to keep the fatman out of my lift.
Right now, I'm trying to sort out with Apple where my credits went. Before buying Pro-L I had something over £46 in App Store credits. So doing the conversion from the listed dollar price of $29.99 meant I should still have something over £21 left. But Apple tell me it's £12. So, an error somewhere, and I believe it is theirs.
You're welcome mate. I have a lot more technical advices and such from years of doing this. I'm not pretending to be a master at mastering since I just use higher-quality headphones and try to "feel my way" through a mix and master using my ears, but I do have advice based only on my own personal experiences.
For instance, with Pro-Q, you can actually match the spectrum of one audio source to another audio source. This is great for mastering your final mix. However, watch out, because if you simply do ONLY spectrum matching on your final mix to make it have the same balance as a commercial release, it's going to sound like shit. The way Pro-Q does spectrum matching is indeed on a hyper surgical level and the bands produce more peaks than the Alps. We don't want to make the Alps feel jealous, so here's how to use Spectrum matching for a great sounding master!
Use TWO Pro-Qs in the mastering chain! The first will be the EQ you adjust, aka the PRIMARY EQ. The second EQ will be the reference EQ used to perform spectrum matching. Load both, and turn the first EQ off for a bit. Use the sidechaining in the second EQ to set up the external signal (aka the track to which the spectrum of your final mix will be matched to). Be sure to have Autogain turned OFF, or if you play back your track after matching, you're going to be in for a VERY LOUD SURPRISE!
SO, with a notepad open or something on which to take notes....look at the curvature of the EQ. Sure there will be many peaks and valleys, so break up the spectrum into larger chunks. For instance, you might see several small peaks between 3kHz and 5kHz, all clocking in around +2.5dB. Mark it down! Oh? The top end seems to be tapering off at around 16kHz? Mark it down. Etc etc.
Then, DELETE the reference EQ. You don't want that affecting the sound of your final mix. Instead, use the primary EQ and shape the final mix using, say, no more than about 4-5 bands based on the notes. Also, you're going to want to adjust things to around 60% of the original figures you marked down from the spectral matching. If a section had the sounds up to around 2.5dB, simply bump up the section to 1.5dB. So on and so forth. It's a LOT easier to do once you practice this a couple of times.
Can you explain why that is?
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Ah, I don't have Pro-Q. But I'm already having success with the Pro-MB and Pro-L combination.
Oops, I made a mistake. Turn Autogain ON when EQ Matching, or you'll be in for a loud surprise. ON, not off. I was half asleep when I wrote that.
This is so very helpful.
I do have a couple of REALLY stupid questions.
In your example: I'm a/b'ing my track with a finished song.
Where is the finished audio, uh, living? In a separate stereo file in Auria? In a guide track (later to be deleted) from my Auria project?
I can tell you've done this thousands of times yourself, but it reminds me of instructing my son over the phone on how to make brownies. Never occurs to me that I have to mention that he needs to crack the eggs and then whisk them.
PS: Reading this thread, I was suddenly dragged out of my natural frugal/skeptical state, and I bought Pro-Q, Pro-L, AND Volcano, one after the other. Terrifying. I'm all in.