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Will haQ attaQ go Android in 2017? │ haQ VLog 115
What!? Have I gone completely mad mad? Android over iOS for music making?
vlog #haqattaq
Comments
helloo
Happy New Year to you mate.
So, I use an iPad for my music but prefer an Android phone for a phone since they're cheaper to replace when they wear out. I'm VERY interested to know what apps are out there besides Caustic. I never heard of Pocketband before, so once I update my Android phone (current one has precious little internal room left), I'll be redownloading Caustic and buying Pocketband. Would you be able to show us what else is out there for Android that's actually worth trying out, even if it's just for musical sketches?
Here's to happy Android device fingering. Cheers.
Total click bait that title. At least you recognized that...
You should do it. Somebody needs to shed a light about what's happening on android. Most people think it's a dead land for music apps but its really not. There's lots of apps. Not as many and certainly not as "pro" as the iOS music apps (except a few like caustic) but there are lots of apps.
I'm on android 6 (marshmallow) HTC one m8 (from 2014) latency it's almost flawless. In newer flagships devices with android 7 must be even better, But the 10 millisecond goal it's not yet accomplished.
It Depends on the apps as well , latency overall it's alright but on some apps is more notable. In some apps audio glitches are constant while in others apps there are none, etc.
There's a few good surprises on android I didn't expect, like the first time I connected a MIDI keyboard the OS recognized the device as a MIDI device and acted accordingly to that.
I think the main issue is that everything it's a real mess with so many variables. I'm sure the apps that have a latency issue on my device could be fixed if the developers could concentrate in optimize their apps for my device alone. But the thing is that they can't, they have to try to accommodate their software to millions of devices and millions of configurations.
Finally if you think you will save some money making music on an android device well... you will not, or almost nothing. Cheap android phones won't work, latency is awful, the OS it's generally really old (KitKat), the micro USB port won't provide enough power for anything besides a SD card. Etc...
Apps examples:
DRC polyphonic synthesizer.
Synth
Org 2017
G-Stomper Rhythm
Ireal pro.
G-stomper Studio
Recording studio.
N-Track studio 8 DAW
Walk band
Music studio
Igrand
Ilectric
Amplitube
Caustic (of course)
etc.. (I'm not going to search through my entire list of apps right now)
And on select Samsung devices there's the ¿bandcamp? (Can't remember the exact name) app/DAW with apps like thumbjam, etc...
Full disclosure: I haven't bought any of these apps besides ireal pro and walk band (don't see the point, my android phone it's my work phone not my main smartphone) but I have all of them installed on my device, either the free version or the main app without any of the IAP. So you can try them if you like.
@jakoB_haQ Thanks for the clickbait.
Other than that ... LIKE.
Out-takes, fABulous.
One thing I wondered, you referred to "the Android platform", but isn't a big part of the app difficulty about different hardware running a whole bunch of varying Android platformS plural?
Adore your work, mwah, mwah!
PocketBand is manufactured by the same organization that makes Oscilab.
Now Andriod has FL Mobile 3 too.
Pocketband has been around since 2010, but it was known as uLoops until a few years ago.
I got it and used it on my first smartphone, a MyTouch 3G. I prefer Android phones as well fot everyday use but after getting my Air 2 there's no denying that iOS is where it's at for music production.
Android just doesn't have the support iOS does. Pocketband's dev Sebastian Seifert is a great guy and his 2beat company produced Oscilab like @u0421793 pointed out. He tried to keep up with Pocketband but after 6 plus years of hard work, the app hasn't been updated lately and now isn't fully compatible with the latest Android 6.0 updates.
I saw there's another app coming out using Pocketband's very unique cloud based recording structure, but I'll always remember Uloops/Pocketband as trailblazers in the field of mobile music production. The community based song rating and remix functionality was groundbreaking and one of the last updates allowed groups of different members to create bands and group recordings.
Sebastian added a sampler, audio recording and a mastering utility to the sequencer based "loop" work flow over the last 6 years but the mp3/cloud based audio quality and Android's awful latency & lack of music production feature support makes Pocketband less than ideal for serious recording.
My member page is still there (pocketband.net/person/jrsiv) which has songs I did in late 2010. They're sort of parodies of the type of hip-hop/rap that the bulk of the membership did at the time (and honestly, it's almost 99% hip-hop/rap produced on the app still today). Most of my Uloops/Pocketband tracks were tongue in cheek but fun to do.
Caustic 3 was another I used for a bit, but it is just a MIDI sequencer really, although it comes with some cool instruments.
Unless Google/Android really decides to get serious about making their operating system music production friendly with better sound & very little latency it will always be second place to the capabilities iOS & the pro level apps in the Appstore.
@smund Hello! =D
Happy new year to you too! =D
I intend to thoroughly research what Android has to offer in music making apps. I also want to do have a look at backing up data and file transferring etc. So I'll most likely do a few videos also showing what's out on the Android market yes. =D
@Lacm1993 thank you so much for all the info. No I know where to start my research.
The biggest issues are as you say latency. That together with the inability to connect apps to one another, makes it almost impossible for me to consider ever going back to Android for music making.
Yes! That's something I've thought about a lot! I have no idea what model/brand Android tablet/phone I'm supposed to go for. I need something that works with most apps that exists on that platform. So I'll have to do a lot of research on that before getting anything. =D
I actually didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out! =D
Yes! I also saw quite recently that KORG released iKaossilator for Android.
SunVox is also available for Android
@jakoB_haQ You may or may not have seen this before:
http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency
I was a backer for the Mogees Play project on Kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mogeesplay/mogees/
... they started out offering apps for iOS & limited Android support, but were ultimately unable to deliver on Android. I can't find the comments explaining why (a good many seem to have vanished), but I remember it was something to do with a Samsung proprietary audio protocol on Android (can't remember what they called it in the vanished comments I can no longer find) and being unable to overcome/work around/bypass the latency issues.
Are you sure this is an avenue you want to pursue? At least in pro audio terms, I think it could easily cost much more than it's worth to you.
@jakoB_haQ Looking over my saved Mogees files I see that Samsung's proprietary Android audio protocol is called SAPA: (SAmsung Pro Audio, such imaginative naming, blech)
A info link:
http://superpowered.com/why-samsung-professional-audio-sdk-is-not-the-best-solution-for-low-latency-android-audio
My affiliation with that site is zero, I just thought it was usefully informative.
Would be so nice if they bothered to update iKaossilator over here on iOS, so many of Korg's apps are abandonware, so sad.
EDIT: Oh wait, they did in Feb last year! Ok, well, not so recent, but more recent than some of their other ones ...
Yes I have seen it before but not untill today. Somone linked to it on my Facebook page.
So you're asking a valid question. Am I sure this is an avenue that I want to pursue? Quite frankly, no. I don't think Android can bring value to my existing setup (in it's current state). But I most definitely believe that the videos I'll be making can be of value to other musicians out there wondering about the topic: Android vs iOS.
I want to do this for comparisons. I receive a lot of questions about why Android isn't ideal for music making. Or why somone should go for iOS instead of Android. Since I am so into iOS I also feel obligated to explain and show why.
However, I must also admit that there is one thing that I remember liking a lot with Android.
The file-system handeling. I don't know if this works the same way now as it did back then, but moving data back and forth between a computer and the Android device was a breeze. Access to almost everything.
iTunes on the other hand makes me incredibly sick of living and I try to stay as far away as possible from it.
@decibelle I'm curious to hear what you think about the mogees. I wanted to back that project but couldn't at the time of the campaign.
Right, I get the added value to your video content which may or may not add value to you personally, different animals.
And I'm so over being locked up as an iTunes prisoner without ever being tried before a judge or anything!
I'm with you brother.
My best wishes for a minimal hassle phone model search.
There's one significant use of android synthery and that is as a sole sound generating unit, i.e., as if it is any other musical instrument. The lack of inter connectivity of multiple apps on the device (which we get with iOS with Audiobus etc.) is a bit unusual - desktop computers can do it, but normal actual synthesizers can't, because generally they don't contain any other synths or equipment. The lower cost of android phones or tablets may suggest a different strategy - that of getting one android device per app, and hooking them all up in the usual way (or even via a digital audio adaptor of some sort that might happen to work with the devices you happen to have).
Actually I haven't used it that much because I've been so blown away by this:
https://secure.schertler.com/en_IT/shop/pickups/basik-pro
I recorded my heartbeat on it, worked a treat!
Awesome.
The problem of that, one device per app, is that you would need really cheap android devices to make it worth financially and cheap android devices suck. Outdated OS (and if you're extremely lucky to get a cheap tablet with android 6 then expect no updates ever), micro USB port not being powerful enough, CPU processors in the level of the iPhone 4s or older, awful plastic screens (that scratch like crazy).
You need to go premium mid range ($400-600) or to be sure high end ($700-900) if you really want the best of android in terms of audio latency. Maybe you'll find something at $300-350 price range (like a used old flagship or something), it's still a lot just to run one app in my opinion.
You will be spending a lot more than if you just get an iPad of decent power.
All true. And their batteries would die quite soon, too. One big - huge - difference between cheap android and top-price android is the battery management is so far superior (or the other way, isn't so laughably basic as to be nonexistent) and also on the real hardware side, the cheap batteries are, well, cheap.
If I'm not mistaken, can't "Soundcamp" on the Samsung Galaxy also connect music apps?
I make this but with old iDevices such iPhone 4 or iPad 2/3 etc. Upgrading my setup atm I get new device for my daily use.
Related to Android it seems later OS have improved kernel for audio latency and, afaik instead superpowered SDK, it will be preferable to look Roli and Juce SDK for development.
Apps like Remixlive or Cross as jumping the gap and releasing an Android version but Idk about "model" limitation. Often I read Nexus and similars as useful which makes me think once again "nah, I will buy an old iPhone/iPod 6gen and gets all the iOS tools like Audiobus, etc"
Stagelight (DAW) on Android, PC, Mac.
Looks interesting.
http://us.openlabs.com/