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Mixing/Mastering on/for Headphones?

13

Comments

  • ecouecou

    What about using the car stereo to check the bass? I brought my iPad in the car and used the aux plug of the car stereo to plug my iPad.using a 1/4 cable. That way I can mix from inside my car.

  • noobnoob
    edited August 2020

    I use decent cans with Morphit, , will def not trust it for a commercial release.. but for noodling and yt its enuff

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Tones4ChristTones4Christ

    Thanks so much! So when inselect the profile it literally means that my mix what ever I’m listening to, is as neutral as it should be right? So i should place morphit on the master channel at the very end of the chain? And leave it even when mixing down?

    Thanks so much☝️🙏👍🏼

    @richardyot said:

    @Tones4Christ said:
    Question: if i have these headphones do i have to select this model from the headphones list drop down? And after that do i need to select “Correct” on the processing drop down list? Please advice thanks!☝️👍🏼🙏

    Yes that’s exactly right.

  • richardyotrichardyot
    edited August 2020

    @Tones4Christ said:
    Thanks so much! So when inselect the profile it literally means that my mix what ever I’m listening to, is as neutral as it should be right? So i should place morphit on the master channel at the very end of the chain? And leave it even when mixing down?

    Thanks so much☝️🙏👍🏼

    @richardyot said:

    @Tones4Christ said:
    Question: if i have these headphones do i have to select this model from the headphones list drop down? And after that do i need to select “Correct” on the processing drop down list? Please advice thanks!☝️👍🏼🙏

    Yes that’s exactly right.

    Yes place it on the master bus at the end of the chain, but only while you are mixing.

    At mixdown time you must remove it, because obviously it can only compensate for your headphones, and not whatever your listener is listening on.

  • noobnoob
    edited August 2020

    I bus it and disable output to monitor on master..Rec and monitor separated. No need to remove anything, just try like this

  • noobnoob

    remember to switch limiter OFF in Morphit (adds latency) use vol slider instead...

  • Tones4ChristTones4Christ

    Great thanks i thought it needed to stay😂

  • sigma79sigma79

    @noob said:
    I bus it and disable output to monitor on master..Rec and monitor separated. No need to remove anything, just try like this

    Is this so, if you are tweaking apps, you can record without morphit but morphit gives you accuracy still to your headphones?

  • sigma79sigma79

    Is 0db the default setting for aum faders in settings? Mine is set to -6db, which would make it -6db at the line and 0db on fader full?

  • sigma79sigma79

    Dont worry. Can see its 0db.

  • mrufino1mrufino1

    @Max23 said:

    @rms13 said:
    Andrew Scheps said he does 100% of his mixing in Pro Tools on a laptop with Sony 7506 headphones. And he's mixed songs and albums for dozens of the biggest acts in the world. (I don't think he does any mastering, just mixing). He has a couple of studios worth of professional gear that he doesn't use anymore

    cough
    do you know the age of that guy?
    I doubt he can hear anything above 12 or 14khz or so ;)
    he must have some assistant for that ;)
    that's why the audio people never tell their age ;)

    Are you familiar with his work and his history? Definitely a guy who knows what he is doing.

  • TarekithTarekith

    @Max23 said:
    @Tarekith
    How many mixes do you get where the bass isn’t right because ppl probably couldn’t hear what they were doing?

    I'm not sure I would say "isn't right", but definitely tweaking and refining the low end is something I'm doing in most mixes I get sent. FWIW, most mixes these days are pretty close to decent these days, it's pretty rare I get something that's just totally wrong. We're lucky that ALL music reproduction has improved drastically over the last 10-15 years.

    But, it's also a much bigger issue than just saying headphones are better than speakers, or vice versa though. A lot of it comes down to acoustics and practice, and even with headphones paying a lot doesn't always equal the fact you will get good (or consistant) results.

    I've been lucky to try mastering with some pretty pricey headphones and always struggled still to get the low end right. I admit I just flat out can't work in open back headphones either, it just never creates the low end in a way I can relate to. It wasn't until I started experimenting with higher end IEMs (I use Shure SE846's these days) that I was finally comfortable enough to actually use them for client work in the same way as my main monitors. Should I need to.

    We all hear things different, it's about putting the time in to try and see what works best for YOU (repeatedly) more than saying gear X is better than gear Y IMVHO.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Max23 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Max23 said:
    I guess it depends very much on the genre of music
    if mixing and mastering can be done on cans or not

    for bass heavy music this won't work
    you get big surprises if you play what was good on cans loud on a big system :o :#

    for bass heavy things rent a studio for a few hours
    mix the low-end on their big system in their acoustic treaded room
    and dont touch the low-end after that again ;)

    Actually good headphones are in fact far more reliable than even the most expensive speakers when it comes to bass reproduction.

    At frequencies below 150hz there will always be some interaction between a room and a speaker system. Room treatments can mitigate this to some extent, but never completely eliminate it.

    You need a combination of room treatment, speaker and sub placement, and calibrated EQ compensation to eliminate standing waves.

    Headphones don’t suffer from any of these issues and are far more likely to give you accurate bass.

    The reason you might get a surprise when checking a mix on speakers is because the standing waves in the room are messing with the mix. But those waves only apply to that room, so if you EQ the mix to fix them then you’ve fixed it for that one room. In a different space you might get resonances in completely different frequencies.

    I recommend this book to anyone who is curious about the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/113892136X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild

    For bass you need to have distance from speaker so the complete wave hits you ;)
    And bass is very physical you can feel it not only hear it,
    Forget headphones for bass heavy music ;)
    Your latest techno production that was good on your headphones will be weird in a club
    I promise you that ;)

    I can see why you would think this but @Tarekith and others have confirmed this isn’t the case.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Max23 said:
    I guess it depends very much on the genre of music
    if mixing and mastering can be done on cans or not

    for bass heavy music this won't work
    you get big surprises if you play what was good on cans loud on a big system :o :#

    for bass heavy things rent a studio for a few hours
    mix the low-end on their big system in their acoustic treaded room
    and dont touch the low-end after that again ;)

    Actually good headphones are in fact far more reliable than even the most expensive speakers when it comes to bass reproduction.

    At frequencies below 150hz there will always be some interaction between a room and a speaker system. Room treatments can mitigate this to some extent, but never completely eliminate it.

    You need a combination of room treatment, speaker and sub placement, and calibrated EQ compensation to eliminate standing waves.

    Headphones don’t suffer from any of these issues and are far more likely to give you accurate bass.

    The reason you might get a surprise when checking a mix on speakers is because the standing waves in the room are messing with the mix. But those waves only apply to that room, so if you EQ the mix to fix them then you’ve fixed it for that one room. In a different space you might get resonances in completely different frequencies.

    I recommend this book to anyone who is curious about the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/113892136X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild

    For bass you need to have distance from speaker so the complete wave hits you ;)
    And bass is very physical you can feel it not only hear it,
    Forget headphones for bass heavy music ;)
    Your latest techno production that was good on your headphones will be weird in a club
    I promise you that ;)

    I can see why you would think this but @Tarekith and others have confirmed this isn’t the case.

    Hm, that’s debatable?
    The way I read he says yes bass is still a problem I have to tweak or fix most of the time.
    So it’s still a common problem that has reasons - the listening environment.

    We’re talking about being able to mix/master low end on headphones, right?

    @Tarekith said:
    It wasn't until I started experimenting with higher end IEMs (I use Shure SE846's these days) that I was finally comfortable enough to actually use them for client work in the same way as my main monitors.

    I don’t want to put words into @Tarekith ’s mouth but I have seen other engineers say the same thing. If you get the right pair of headphones and get to know their sound then you can do a pro mix on them, club ready low end and all.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • TarekithTarekith
    edited August 2020

    It's a misunderstanding of the physics involved that makes people think you need to hear a whole cycle of a wave in the air to actually hear it. That's not how sound waves work.

    I will agree that in headphones you lose a certain physicality of music as a THING that you feel too though, it's a different experience entirely.

    I always tell people if you're going to work in headphones then just stop trying to compare them to speakers and approach them like a totally different listening space. You can achieve the same results at the end of the day with either, focus on what they do best and learn to work with that.

  • TarekithTarekith

    @Max23 said:
    I’m mixing since 20 years with the same headphones
    and I know if it’s sounds ok on them it probably will translate good on a big system, say I’m in The ballpark I want but not standing exactly where I want to be ...
    all of this isn’t ideal and can be improved...

    If there's one thing I've learned in all my years of making and producing music, it's that practice always trumps all. You can make amazing sounding music on ANYTHING if you put enough time into it and check yourself once inawhile on other systems. Better gear just (usually) makes it faster/easier.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Max23 said:
    I guess it depends very much on the genre of music
    if mixing and mastering can be done on cans or not

    for bass heavy music this won't work
    you get big surprises if you play what was good on cans loud on a big system :o :#

    for bass heavy things rent a studio for a few hours
    mix the low-end on their big system in their acoustic treaded room
    and dont touch the low-end after that again ;)

    Actually good headphones are in fact far more reliable than even the most expensive speakers when it comes to bass reproduction.

    At frequencies below 150hz there will always be some interaction between a room and a speaker system. Room treatments can mitigate this to some extent, but never completely eliminate it.

    You need a combination of room treatment, speaker and sub placement, and calibrated EQ compensation to eliminate standing waves.

    Headphones don’t suffer from any of these issues and are far more likely to give you accurate bass.

    The reason you might get a surprise when checking a mix on speakers is because the standing waves in the room are messing with the mix. But those waves only apply to that room, so if you EQ the mix to fix them then you’ve fixed it for that one room. In a different space you might get resonances in completely different frequencies.

    I recommend this book to anyone who is curious about the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/113892136X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild

    For bass you need to have distance from speaker so the complete wave hits you ;)
    And bass is very physical you can feel it not only hear it,
    Forget headphones for bass heavy music ;)
    Your latest techno production that was good on your headphones will be weird in a club
    I promise you that ;)

    I can see why you would think this but @Tarekith and others have confirmed this isn’t the case.

    Hm, that’s debatable?
    The way I read he says yes bass is still a problem I have to tweak or fix most of the time.
    So it’s still a common problem that has reasons - the listening environment.

    We’re talking about being able to mix/master low end on headphones, right?

    @Tarekith said:
    It wasn't until I started experimenting with higher end IEMs (I use Shure SE846's these days) that I was finally comfortable enough to actually use them for client work in the same way as my main monitors.

    I don’t want to put words into @Tarekith ’s mouth but I have seen other engineers say the same thing. If you get the right pair of headphones and get to know their sound then you can do a pro mix on them, club ready low end and all.

    I’m mixing since 20 years with the same headphones
    and I know if it’s sounds ok on them it probably will translate good on a big system, say I’m in The ballpark I want but not standing exactly where I want to be ...
    all of this isn’t ideal and can be improved...

    OK, I see what you’re saying. So dial it in on a decent pair of headphones and then go visit your closest reggae sound system for a sanity check: https://www.soundsystem.world

    😎 🔊🔊🔊🔊

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Max23 said:
    I guess it depends very much on the genre of music
    if mixing and mastering can be done on cans or not

    for bass heavy music this won't work
    you get big surprises if you play what was good on cans loud on a big system :o :#

    for bass heavy things rent a studio for a few hours
    mix the low-end on their big system in their acoustic treaded room
    and dont touch the low-end after that again ;)

    Actually good headphones are in fact far more reliable than even the most expensive speakers when it comes to bass reproduction.

    At frequencies below 150hz there will always be some interaction between a room and a speaker system. Room treatments can mitigate this to some extent, but never completely eliminate it.

    You need a combination of room treatment, speaker and sub placement, and calibrated EQ compensation to eliminate standing waves.

    Headphones don’t suffer from any of these issues and are far more likely to give you accurate bass.

    The reason you might get a surprise when checking a mix on speakers is because the standing waves in the room are messing with the mix. But those waves only apply to that room, so if you EQ the mix to fix them then you’ve fixed it for that one room. In a different space you might get resonances in completely different frequencies.

    I recommend this book to anyone who is curious about the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/113892136X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild

    For bass you need to have distance from speaker so the complete wave hits you ;)
    And bass is very physical you can feel it not only hear it,
    Forget headphones for bass heavy music ;)
    Your latest techno production that was good on your headphones will be weird in a club
    I promise you that ;)

    I can see why you would think this but @Tarekith and others have confirmed this isn’t the case.

    Hm, that’s debatable?
    The way I read he says yes bass is still a problem I have to tweak or fix most of the time.
    So it’s still a common problem that has reasons - the listening environment.

    We’re talking about being able to mix/master low end on headphones, right?

    @Tarekith said:
    It wasn't until I started experimenting with higher end IEMs (I use Shure SE846's these days) that I was finally comfortable enough to actually use them for client work in the same way as my main monitors.

    I don’t want to put words into @Tarekith ’s mouth but I have seen other engineers say the same thing. If you get the right pair of headphones and get to know their sound then you can do a pro mix on them, club ready low end and all.

    I’m mixing since 20 years with the same headphones
    and I know if it’s sounds ok on them it probably will translate good on a big system, say I’m in The ballpark I want but not standing exactly where I want to be ...
    all of this isn’t ideal and can be improved...

    OK, I see what you’re saying. So dial it in on a decent pair of headphones and then go visit your closest reggae sound system for a sanity check: https://www.soundsystem.world

    😎 🔊🔊🔊🔊

    Yup. See if it makes the ghetto dance.
    Snap used to test their mixes in Frankfurts clubs before sending them to labels to see if it works in the club.

    Tell them they still owe Chill Rob G lol

  • ecouecou

    @ecou said:
    What about using the car stereo to check the bass? I brought my iPad in the car and used the aux plug of the car stereo to plug my iPad.using a 1/4 cable. That way I can mix from inside my car.

    Does anybody know if the car is reliable to test the bass?

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • mrufino1mrufino1
    edited August 2020

    @Max23 said:

    @mrufino1 said:

    @Max23 said:

    @rms13 said:
    Andrew Scheps said he does 100% of his mixing in Pro Tools on a laptop with Sony 7506 headphones. And he's mixed songs and albums for dozens of the biggest acts in the world. (I don't think he does any mastering, just mixing). He has a couple of studios worth of professional gear that he doesn't use anymore

    cough
    do you know the age of that guy?
    I doubt he can hear anything above 12 or 14khz or so ;)
    he must have some assistant for that ;)
    that's why the audio people never tell their age ;)

    Are you familiar with his work and his history? Definitely a guy who knows what he is doing.

    Yes.
    That doesn’t mean he is able to hear that annoying beep at 15 kHz that makes the kids crazy. ;)
    He just does what he does since decades and is well respected. No question about that.

    I don’t know how old you are but have a go yourself
    take a sine wave and sweep it tru the spectrum
    and be surprised what you don’t hear (anymore).
    I’m in my mid 40s and it stops at 15/16 kHz,
    I’m doing ok for my age. ;)

    I’m 45 and I can generally hear 16k, sometimes higher if it’s loud enough. I have always worn fitted earplugs or fitted in ears when possible at gigs, but I have plenty of colleagues who don’t or haven’t done that and they have terrible hearing now.

    I don’t know Andrew Scheps can hear, but I get the impression he has taken good care of himself. He’s always been a studio guy, so it’s possible that he wasn’t really mixing at extreme levels. But I could be wrong.

  • drezdrez

    I’m developing tinnitus so I’ve dialed my volume way back (I’ve kept it pretty low historically) and only mix on my Apple EarPods lately. My mix is never where I want it but I’ve learned not to stress about it. I just do the best I can and move on. My iPhone is always on me so I just work in NS2 when I have a few minutes at a time using morphit and it’s good enough for me. I’ll never be amazing at it and it’s just for fun, so I’m ok with it. I’m just doing it for fun anyway :smile:

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