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Comments
Late on this news ... just wanted to chime in and say this sucks.
I have Noatikl 3 and Mixtikl 7 on my device and that will be the last this developer sees of my $.
Despite the UI I enjoy tinkering with these but this subscription model is indeed taking the piss.
Bing.
@skiphunt
"They (intermorphic) keep throwing in my face, "you just want free development, etc." "
Well, if Intermorphic is reading this thread, hopefully they realise we're not asking for free development. We just don't want to be reamed out the arse just to support an app whose major number upgrades (version 1, version 2, etc) lack on new features but feature plenty of bug fixes that should've already been fixed with a minor number upgrade (such as with version number 1.2). (Side note: major number upgrades vs minor number upgrades wouldn't matter so much if Intermorphic didn't charge money for each major number upgrade.)
Hopefully they realise their ungrateful and disrespectful "you just want free development" attitude problem ALIENATES their customer base rather than attracts it.
Hopefully they realise their pathetic candy-arsed excuses to save face on Facebook won't change the customers' financial situations one iota.
Until they change their corporatist attitude problem, Intermorphic is on my "avoid-at-all-costs" list alongside Cakewalk software.
Dear gentlemen!, I realise most of you are pissed at intermorphic. I've been a customer of theirs for long years, and thus contacted them through their forum (Noatikl is at the center of my Rig, for years now, and I can't imagine having to let it go, I was blown away by the news!!).
Here is the conversation, and if anybody finds their suggestion (at the end of Tim's answer) at all suitable, please let them know, so they keep up a non-subscriptional Version. You will hereby help simple minds like mine, remember!
Wotja Subscriptions (Noatikl for ios TO BE DISCONTINUED?)
by animal » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:18 am
Hello dear intermorphic-TimandPete-,
Your latest announcements made me shiver, because they sound like, in the long run you are going to abandon development of Noatikl, to concentrate on the new Wotja-subscription-route... . Is that right? I was reading through your statements, and I get your reasoning, needing food on the table and everything, but please don't forget: your customres also do! I, for one, will not jump on the subscription-train whatever (too many little things amounting to too much as a whole, I need to eat, too, you know), but would be very sad, if I had to replace Noatikl in the HEART of my setup.
Please elaborate on: will Noatikl be kept up to date with future versions of ios, or are there no such plans at all.
To be clear: you have my best wishes for your subscription-future, but it's not for me.
Cheers, t
Re: Wotja Subscriptions (Noatikl for ios TO BE DISCONTINUED?)
by imtim » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:14 pm
Dear Animal (and others interested in this topic)
Thanks for your post and I know you have been on the forum for a long time. Thanks, too, for reaching out and asking your question in a pleasant way (as have a few other people, too), and I am happy to do my best at answering it for you and them.
If you just want to just skip to our suggestion at the end, then please do.
I can assure you that we dearly love our customers and always want to to do the best for them and we do not want to lose any (although we accept we might; change is not for everyone). As people, it hurts us to cause upset to our customers which is why, for those who want it, this post goes into more detail than it really needs to. We are NOT greedy, or insensitive or scammers or anything else like that - we are completely the opposite.
For us, this time of change is about our SURVIVAL. Assuming there is survival (and that is not a given) it is also about what that future looks like for us and our apps.
Because of the seriousness of the matter I cannot apologise that we have to take tough decisions. However, we DO want to make sure we make the right ones. We have always listened and will always continue to do so and, where there is room, good reason and time to change, we most often do. Like everything in life it is about balance and we do want to find the right balance.
The fact you have felt the need to ask why we have moved to subscription means, in part, that I have not successfully communicated the rationale underlying our changes, i.e. some of the issues driving it. I tried to keep things relatively brief as I value people’s time, but also because it would take us too long to go into even a few of the twist and turns that we have had to make because of a very complex set of interlocking issues that have been brewing for a long time.
If you just want to just skip to our suggestion at the end, then please do.
It is important to say this right at the start: you can of course continue using the creativity apps you paid for for as long as your OS supports them. That could be many years indeed and it will not cost you another dollar. We spent a LOT of time last year working on improving and doubling down on stability. We did that because we have been planning this move to Wotja for a long time and we wanted to ensure our existing customers had stable apps that would last them a long time, too, should they decide they did not want to journey any further.
To aid understanding it can help to see us as master luthiers or artists or musicians or craftsman or engineers who have built up their domain knowledge over 26 years of unrelenting toil and who build unique and bespoke things. There are just two of us who work very very hard; we are not just A N Other fresh faced VC-funded “app developer” with a blank check in front of them (I am not suggesting for a minute that you think that; besides, the former and their money can do amazing things, too, and all credit to them). We are just who we are.
Against the backdrop above, and to help offset the costs of development of new features, we had for several years been operating a “Fullgrade” model where every major version was charged for as a new app (e.g. Noatikl 2 > Noatikl 3), and we always intended a roughly annual release cycle even if other things got in the way to prevent it. We adopted that model because the market for our tools has to date been small and the model of a “one off payment of a few dollars for all features for all time” was a non starter for us. Even in that Fullgrade model we had to charge a lot less than we needed to but at the time there was a race to the bottom going on in terms of pricing (precipitated by the massive influx of Venture Capital in to the app space all going for land grab). One of the big issues for us with Fullgrade arose because for every new version we released we had to start all over again in the App Store (app discovery is a massive issue for developers) and a number of people got cross because they expected to pay once for all time. A good number of users also felt that they never needed to upgrade (that was of course their choice and we totally respect that). That all fed into a mix that meant we were not generating enough to allow us to keep developing new features and move things forward as fast as we wanted to.
To compound matters (and remember, there are just two of us), since starting Intermorphic we have developed 5 apps with multiple versions that all need maintaining just to stand still, let alone extend. Each of the many rebuild and test cycles needed before each release (e.g. OS or device change) soaks up considerable time. And that is just for starters; there is of course a lot more to it all than that including adding new features, improving productivity etc…. These apps and variants include: Noatikl iOS, Noatikl macOS, Noatikl Windows, Noatikl VST Plugin, Noatikl AU Plugin, Mixtikl iOS, Mixtikl macOS, Mixtikl Windows, Mixtikl VST Plugin, Mixtikl AU Plugin, Mixtikl Android (GP), Mixitkl Android (AZ), Liptikl iOS, Liptikl macOS, Liptikl Windows, Wotja iOS, Tiklbox iOS. That is just too many apps for two people, and it meant we were spread too thinly. We had to take action and we had to find a way to consolidate things (and it is possible that we may look at Liptikl too), and that is Wotja 4. So, we took a deep breath and last year started that consolidation in the interests of longer term survival for us and those customers who want to see our apps survive and grow. The Wotja iOS consolidation took us about 6 months of really, really hard work - a huge undertaking and massive investment for us.
To be clear the capabilities that were in Noatikl and Mixtikl are not dead, they just live on in Wotja which will continue to evolve. Your noatikl and mixtikl files will play in Wotja. And, as we said above and it is worth re-iterating, you can of course continue using the Noatikl and Mixtikl creativity apps you paid for for as long as your OS supports them. That could be many years indeed and it will not cost you another dollar.
OK, I need to try to bring this all back together now.
With now one principal mobile music app to focus on and develop we can make improvements faster (we are already working on an improved controller and a user playlist feature should follow that) - this should be great for customers. A concern for us, though, is that is it also means that all our revenue streams collapse into one, which is also why the future is uncertain, and is also why we moved to a subscription model. We prepared a FAQ that sets out what subscription is and the benefits is brings, so I won't rehearse or rehash that here. See: https://intermorphic.com/wotja/#faq-subscriptions
However, we do understand that some of you really do not like subscriptions, at all, despite the benefits.
So, to cut to the chase.
SUGGESTION
We will continue with subscription because of the many benefits it has, but for those who just don’t like it and if there is sufficient demand (see below), we will ALSO create every year at roughly the same time of year a new paid for app that we price somewhere above the annual subs price (in the expectation that most will either never buy another version, or will skip versions).
Because we still need to consolidate there would be only one version of this app, and it would have the same capabilities as the PRO subs version. We would call it something like Wotja 2017, or Wotja PRO 2017 (TBD). This app would get the same updates over the year as the PRO subs version.
We would also be explicit that we would not further update the full version once the next full version was released (e.g. no updates to Wotja PRO 2017 after Wotja PRO 2018 was released), however most apps can work just fine for many years without updates.
In order to make Wotja PRO 2017 palatable for as many people as possible we would also propose reducing our PRO subs price (we understand that anyone who has already bought the PRO subs would get a refund of the difference).
This is a clear summary of what we would propose for this year for Wotja for iOS (likely pricing, but subject change):
WOTJA - ESSENTIALS
Annualised Subs - $10
WOTJA - PRO
Annualised Subs - $20
WOTJA PRO 2017
$25 one off payment (just a tad higher that our current 3 app Creativity bundle)
We do understand that even this will not suit everyone as some may still consider it expensive but ESSENTIALS at its price already allows way more editing/mixing capability than Noatikl ever did (as well as the new TTM capability, mix randomisation, audio loop support, album player etc). And, more features will be added to Wotja over the year, too.
If the above (WOTJA PRO 2017) is something you would like to see, would better meet your needs, and you would purchase it, then please let us know ASAP - we would then get onto it straight away (it would probably take a couple of days or so to figure out before submitting to Apple for review).
To do that you can either +1 this post or contact us directly via our support form.
We hope this suggestion is a solution that works for those who are opposed to subscriptions.
With best wishes
Tim
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Re: Wotja Subscriptions (Noatikl for ios TO BE DISCONTINUED?)
by animal » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:59 pm
Dear Tim,
Thank you for responding, I will happily buy every yearly ProVersion, that's not paid via subscription, I promise (though I think Noatikl is much cooler name, than Wotja...:)..), because I do wish to help you maintain these great Applications.
This counts as long as I myself receive enough income, year to year, I'm a freelancer, and the times are tough... .
Cheers, and thank you for your suggestion,
T
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and the link to their forum:
https://forum.intermorphic.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2283&p=8785#top
--I am in no way affiliated with these guys, by the way, but personally feel, they've been doing a great job.
I'm with @MonzoPro worst of the worst user interfaces. Never gave them a penny because of that. They kept asking for users to buy a new version and never did anything about the UI. Not for me.
That's a nice story and all... but from my own experience, their explanation and justification simply don't add up.
I don't have "a rig" and I don't make any money with my music app dabblings. Pure fun... and mostly toys.
My only experience goes back to Mixtikl 3 I think. I felt the app was interesting, and over time I thought it had the most potential of the generative offerings. However, I too never really took to the kludgy interface. Yet, because I thought there was a good foundation, I chose to support the developers by buying the next version 4.
There were minor tweaks, and slight improvements, but not so much different from 3.
When 5 came out, the screen shots looked like just maybe Intermorphic had got their footing on the UI, so I ponied up again. Still, not really that much different. A few tweaks and bug fixes. At this point I was starting to get a little irritated but I chalked it off to supporting the developers.
When 6 came out, I basically had to buy because 5 no longer worked with an iOS update. Getting slightly more irritated, but again... I supported the dev and had my fingers crossed for more noticeable improvements or features, beyond basically maintenance bug fixes. Again... I was let down. Miner improvement, not much new, slight tweaks to UI.
By the time 6 broke with a mere iOS upgrade, I'd already had enough... but I'd already invested/supported Intermorphic with 4 full-grade purchases that weren't really all that different from each other in terms of UI or overall functionality. But, I foolishly... one more time, decided that I still saw great potential in Mixtikl compared to other generative apps, and ponied up one last time to Mixtikl 7 (just months ago)
The only real difference between 6 and 7 that I noticed was that it worked instead of being broken. Again, I basically paid full price again for app bug fixes and maintenance.
But, at least I had a working version and my 5 full-price app purchases wouldn't have been in vain.
Now, I find they're basically abandoning Mixtikl and if the next iOS upgrade breaks it AGAIN, I'll have no Mixtikl at all, or I'll have to subscribe to Wotja (never gonna happen).
I guess what bugs me most is that I fell for it so many times. There were many red flags, and I chose to ignore them while mostly keeping faith in these developers. Only to finally be kicked in the teeth. Ultimately, I'm angry that I stuck with these guys so long. Each time it was the same song and dance from them too.
Do devs who've launched an app and have developed a community and loyal following of that app, with users purchasing several full versions of their app... at least owe it to their users to at minimum, fix the their apps then they fail with a iOS upgrade? And if Intermorphic has now officially abandoned Mixtikl for any future iOS upgrade breakage, why are they still selling it at full price without mentioning in the description that if it breaks with the next iOS update, you're on your own? Does that seem like earnest, righteous dev behavior to you?
ESSENTIALS ($4.99) – Play Time: Up to 1 hour; Save/Export: All Cells in Column 1
PRO ($14.99) – Play Time: Up to 8 hr 53 mins; Save/Export: All Cells in all Columns; MIDI Out/In: Multi-channel
FOR 6 MONTHS OF USE
Cost per month $2.50
NOT BAD!!
You have to make is absolutely much much clearer in the app description and in the sales material Intermophic!!!!
@animal I think Intermorphic is being very clear about how and why the believe the move to a subscription/annual new app purchase is needed for their economic sustainability.
It also remains to be seen if there will be sufficient people willing to go down this road with them. Agree with others who have found the GUI of their apps to be poor and reduces the quality of the user the experience.
I think they may be out of touch with why their apps aren't more popular and it seems to be more of a case of being naive and grasping at straws to some extent rather than being greedy by trying to extract as much money as they can from users. Ultimately there might not be enough interest in their apps/consolidated app to meet the expectations of users. Being out of step with the practices of other app developers can add to the perception of greed when to me it seems more of a failure to make their app more appealing and a failure to adequately communicate more clearly in the past about their plans thereby alienating existing users.
The iOS music app business is definitely a tough one to sustain so I appreciate those developers that continue to offer compelling apps and acccept that these factors contribute to a significant number of developers who will/have not be able to sustain their efforts.
I have a taste in my mouth I don't like about all of this, but when I ignore it for long enough most of the truth seems to lie in the above.
@skiphunt: we had this discussion before (about pricing/updates concerning Noatikl/Mixtikl). I accept your opinion and I can understand the frustration, but please no anger towards me, I was only trying to lighten up the hostile mood... . I also do apologize for having used the word "rig", which seems to have enraged you even more. What I was trying to say, is that Noatikl is absolutely essential for my playing, as it is. I am not a "professional", but love to play around with possible unintentionalities, the weird UI in Noatikl I can live with because I know it from the Desktop version and appreciate the deepness that lies underneath all that. The connection to the intermorphic forum is here, now, whoever is interested can go there, too. I know it's not for everyone, and absolutely accept opinions like yours of feeling betrayed, I just don't believe myself this was anyone's intention in this case.
It seems now, intermorphic are going to also establish a full payed non-subscriptional version. With this, I will be happy.
I wish a very good day, with the great springlike sunrays edging their way through (like right now here, in Germany).
/end of rant,
Cheers, t
No, and it's an important point, particularly considering the likelihood (based on the susceptibility to breaking of previous versions) that it will.
I agree.
I have all apps from intermorphic except this last one.
The perspective of cannot use them anymore after only 1 months since I bought them it's not great.
And it's not great at all to not mention this fact in the App Store description.
Generative music it's very interesting and their apps are really deep, but I don't see me paying a subscription in order to use it.
Especially given their approach to customers.
I don't see that it would be difficult to do a yearly maintenance bug fix on the final versions of Noatikl and Mixtikl to keep the current user base happy and with more of a choice, I think they would make more money from casual users. Their new non subscription app will break too each year or are they keeping that one updated?
But this is something Apple will have to look into if they want more pro apps to work for customers. There could be a scan whilst you install an iOS update and it tell you which apps will Be incompatible. You can do this in Windows I think. And also there could be a compatibility mode for an app which ran in previous iOS versions. If they can do this on a desktop OS then it could be implemented. If you know certain apps will break then you have a choice to update or not.
I also think it would have been better if Intrmorphic had warned customers that they will break on iOS updates so would need to upgrade to continue using their products. A simple thing like that goes a long way in PR
Hey Animal,
No negativity toward you at all! I don't mind the term "rig". Only used it because a lot of folks use that term and all I have is an iPad (no rig).
If you're cool with intermorphic's actions and treatment of users who've sent them money somewhat regularly in support, then that's your prerogative. I'm not.
Again, I don't have any problem with intermorphic trying subscriptions on a new app product. What I'm angry about are the decisions intermorphic has made to once again bilk longtime users as I've cited above.
None of the disdain for the decisions and past actions of Intermorphic are directed at you in any way shape or form. I have no issue with your position at all. Sorry if if you took it that way.
It likely just sounded that way because the post started out as a reply, then careened into a rant on Intermorphic so it sounded like it was aimed at you. It wasn't.
I don't even care if Intermorphic moved on with sole development of Wotja, but at least maintained Noatikl and Mixtikl so that at minimum they continued to run in case an iOS update breaks them. If they would commit to that one thing, I'd be completely cool with their new direction.
ANYWAYS...
@skiphunt I think what Animal's intentions were was to try and cool us down and to get to the bottom of things via investigating, to offer all of us a sense of closure. What he's uncovered has actually given me a better understanding of Tim and Eric, er, Tim and Pete. Tim and Pete are a couple of bumbling idiots businesswise, and no they do NOT have an Awesome Show. There's no doubt the two are ingenious enough to build a deep generative music environment, so this is not what makes them stupid.
What makes them stupid is they sit and wonder why their sales aren't as high as for other apps. They try to ascribe the "rational explanation" to other things and try to solve them by reaming the existing customer base out the arse. Well, newsflash. Here's what the situation truly is - as much as we love the Ambient and Generative music genres and love tinkering around with that type of music, those genres are simply unpopular!
Why has Auria Pro sold so well? It's a full production environment (and the first to offer live multitrack recording). Why has AudioBus done so well? It's the virtual patchbay! Why has Gadget sold so well despite the steep price tag (and by steep, I'm including all IAPs which were worth it!)? Because it's easy to produce virtually all Electronic Music genres with great ease using it alone.
Noatikl and Mixtikl are not easy apps to use, because they sacrifice ease of use for depth and complexity. While we here love depth and complexity, I assume not all iOS musicians want to bother with those two things. This, combined with the fact that Generative music and Ambient music are unpopular, and you got the perfect storm for app sales not doing so well despite how great Noatikl and Mixtikl are.
But no. Of COURSE that can't be it. No, it's some conspiracy within Apple or whatever, and more money must be made somehow. Well, we'll see how Intermorphic will eventually fall to the wayside and rot because of how naive Tim and Pete are on the business end of things by discontinuing two incredible long-standing apps that have been around for years in favour of a pathetic cash grab attempt.
@jwmmakerofmusic Meh, although I agree with you on all points, its not worth my harping on it anymore. As I mentioned, I'm more annoyed with myself for not pulling the plug on Mixtikl a long time ago. I should've known the first couple of cash crabs for not much more than bug fixes, that intermorphic was a waste of time.
Nowadays, I feel there are options I like much better for generative stuff anyway. For my use, Refraktions is a MUCH better option, followed closely by Moodscaper. Xynthesizr and Quincy scratch that itch as well. And for hardcore stuff, Dhalang is lightyears ahead and in a whole other league of sophistication.
Truth is, I've never really loved Mixtikl. I saw great potential and held onto hope for each new full-grade paid update would bring Mixtikl to a relevant place of value, but that never really happened.
Just kicking myself for wasting time and money on an app that was never fully realized.
Thanks for the suggestions mate.
I got Xynthesizr and Moodscaper, but never tried Quincy and never heard of Dhalang. I think I may just snap up a $25 iTunes card and snag Dhalang and, if I've anything leftover on the iTunes account, also snag Quincy and the $4.99 all modules IAP.
Quincy is similar to Xynthesizr. You get something musical faster with Quincy vs Xynthesizr, but of the two I prefer Xynthesizr's control.
I like both of though, but ii think I like Refraktions better than either, especially with it's newly added midi control of external synths.
Dhalang MG is something else entirely. It's a beast. I love it, but I'd be remiss if I didn't urge you to first try Dhalang MG lite to see if it's a good fit for you. That dev is awesome and his lite version gives you a very generous sampling of what the app is about.
"I'd be remiss if I didn't urge you to first try Dhalang MG lite to see if it's a good fit for you."
Actually, after spending 3 minutes sifting through the feature set, I'm getting Dhalang before the end of the day. The only thing that may throw me a steeper learning curve is the physical modelling synth, but everything else seems to be pretty much cut and dry and only requires a little light reading to grasp how things operate.
I graduated with two degrees in music and learned a LOT about stochastic and generative music. I used to create my own random playing card systems to select pitches, note lengths, rests, time signature/bpm changes, etc. I used to dream of creating a system of neverending music, but I found C-Sound to be a bit confusing back then (as I wasn't nearly as educated as I am these days).
I also used to lust for a software system that would allow me create microtonal scales and such. Sytrus of FL Studio fame has the ability to import scala files, and I remember how painful it was in 2007 to try and find a piece of free software that would allow me to create any sort of scala microtonal system I wanted (and this was in the days when I was obsessed with Pelog and Slendro scales as well as using the meantone scale of one key while composing the piece of music in another key in order to get a pleasing "out of tune" dissonance).
They call Dhalang a groovebox, but I doubt that's what it really is. Seems to be just the ticket I've been looking for. And with microtonal scale abilities, it blows Noatikle and Mixtikl out of the water tuning-wise.
Sums it up for me....
You are going to LOVE Dhalang MG then! He's @Hypertonal got a desktop OSX version too. Sounds like you're already ahead of the curve, but he's got several demo videos on his site to check out and get up to speed quickly: http://www.hypertonal.net/dhalang/tutorials.html
@jwmmakerofmusic I agree you make valid points but concluding Intermorphic should change their focus to something other than generative/ambient music doesn't make sense to me. To be more effective, I think they need to add design/GUI resources to their development cycle so they can create a more engaging app as without this even if they focused on more popular music app creation categories they'd still be unable to compete against even stiffer competition.
This thread is degenerating into some pretty daft comments (in places).
I've been in touch with the developer to raise my concerns. I got a fair response, apparently there will be a non-subscription version of Wotja being released (I don't know what the pricing may be). Personally, I still wouldn't go down the subscription route. I don't think they are 'greedy corporates', in the slightest. (*)
Has anyone actually started to look at Wotja 4 ? I was under the impression that it was just a player of sorts, when actually it's more of a consolidation of what Noatikl and Mixtikl do. For me, I'II go for it, as there isn't anything else (on iOS) that can do what Noatikl can do.
If people want to have a good moan at subscriptions and pricing, look at that lurssen Mastering thing (*) - now that's pushing it !
For me, it all comes down to the da t I've supported intermorphic to the tune of $30+ dollars and have only got about $1's worth of value.
Past time to cut bait.
I won't be going for the new Wotja, but really really enjoy both Noatikl and Mixtikl.
I generally don't update my Software anyway, and hope to continue my enjoyment of these two beauties.
I also second a recommendation for Quincy. It's a great deal of fun.
@skiphunt: thanks for responding and clarifying. I might have taken your comments too personal. Still sad to see so much anger towards intermorphic, but what can you do. Living on, cheers, t
True. All good
At the end of the day, it's just apps. Not worth getting bent out of shape over (taking to myself) 
I think Intermorphic serves a very niche market - happens to be my favorite means of making music but the learning curve is significant. I mainly use Noatikl both on the Desktop and iPad. I like the idea of combining Mixtkl's grid with full Noatikl and MIDI support - I almost always drive other synths or samplers with the tool. As for Wotja, I haven't really used the specific text to music features for much. My own compositions have randomness in them, but aren't really just random sounds.
I have interacted with the developers over the years and they really are committed to their product. As mentioned, user interface probably isn't their strong suit - but I have yet to find anything as powerful to balance musical control with automated improvisation so elegantly.
They obviously have to do something to survive. The $100+ price point of the desktop products hit iOS at under $15 with no real upgrade possibilities. I think subscriptions are one possibility but I do hate the idea of functionality "turning off" when not renewing. Other companies just come out with large IAPs or "complete my bundle" semi-upgrades. I think their "two tiered" approach might work out ok.
Looks like many folks may bail and that's understandable. I am still getting great results with their tools (at least to my ears) and enjoy using the "Noatikl" features.
I also see many developers come out with cool synths or software that then languishes and never updates. This is also a problem - there is no real incentive for devs to continue updating/upgrading old software under the app model.