'Record MIDI' from Troublemaker??

Artefact2001

Hi all, I'm trying to create a track using Troublemaker with automation / filters are applied afterwards. The track would be many different TM sequences edited together, that ideally contain mutation. My ideal workflow would be to record the MIDI out live to Cubasis, arrange, and then play the MIDI from Cubasis to TM with some additional automation via MIDI cc's, recording the audio. I don't think this is possible due to Troublemaker not outputting MIDI (only 'export'). Has anyone got any any workflow tips re. this? Or has there been any discussion with @brambos on the subject of MIDI out? I think I read somewhere that the sequencer in the standalone was essentially a MIDI sequencer / AU combo. Any help appreciated!

hellquist

There is no midi out in Troublemaker. Bram is saying it goes against the idea of AU v3, as the hosts should have their own sequencer built-in. We have been nagging him (but he does have a point).

He did point out though that it isn't much of rocket science going on in there. Basically, if two notes overlap they will make a "glide" from one to the other, and marking something with an "accent" can be done in pretty much any sequencer (change velocity from, say a defaulted 80, to 120 or similar).

I was sceptical at first, but did do some quick experiments (today actually) in midiSTEPs (where it is both quick and easy to create both accents and ties, where the ties turn into glides in you use Troublemaker) driving Troublemaker with good results.

lukesleepwalker

Does midi steps do mutation/variation like the TM sequencer, @hellquist?

hellquist

@lukesleepwalker said:
Does midi steps do mutation/variation like the TM sequencer, @hellquist?

Functionality wise you can make it do pretty much all things the sequencer in Troublemaker does, yeah. With the added benefit of being able to have it randomize notes within a scale. What Troublemaker does nicely is to randomize a pattern with ties/accents. In midiSTEPs you need to first select "tie probability" and "accent probability" and set your value for it. That will then kind of stay regardless of how you randomize the notes. You can of course change it too, manually (i.e. turn it off for a particular step, or always have it on) but it doesn't randomize out in the same way as in Troublemaker.

That does however mean that you can setup midiSTEPs to randomly skip notes etc as well, which can be great for variation. You can even set it so it doesn't miss a beat even if you skip a note (if you let another track control the position in the pattern)...or you can set it to odd numbers and have random skips and it will be forever rotating etc.

If you have an idea of what Troublemaker pattern you'd like, it is very easy to setup midiSTEPs to do it as well.

midiSTEPs also have the benefit of being able to string together many patterns into songs, and that you can control it via midi etc.

brambos

If you do a MIDI file export from Troublemaker, the probability engine is still applied. So you can export the same loop multiple times and it will be different every time.

Why not do the rest in Cubasis and host TM as an AU in there directly? Troublemaker was made primarily as an Audio Unit Extension. Its own sequencer was originally only meant to be for a bit of light tinkering on the bus.

Artefact2001

@brambos

Thanks for your input! I can understand that the original intention of the sequencer was 'light tinkering' but I think this doesn't give credit to what it has now become — a great 'performance tool' — muting notes, changing glides, altering mutation settings, loading new sequences, all while playing 'as an instrument' on-the-fly. to only be able to capture this in tiny chunks and exporting many parts seems such an inelegant and fractured workflow.

I for one would happily pay for a multichannel MIDI out IAP — one channel going to an AU of TM and others going to Oddessei and iSEM (or driving instruments in LIve), now that could result in some crazy ACIEEED mayhem!

Alternatively you could do a standalone Bram Bos version of the Social Entropy Engine, given what you've done already with your 'on the bus' sequencer I'd really like to see your take on this!

crony

@brambos I understand about the midi notes, but what about knobs feedback ?
If you use a midi controller that is tracking values, like BCR2000, for instance, as I do, you may like to have a return of the values of the parameters sounds on the knobs.
I do that with Model 15, and as I also change the preset on the BCR2000, I can jump to a synth from an other quickly, see the values and play with them...
If you also include program change, to select presets, you may have your values populated on the controller using a program change in the sequencer host.

In AUx host, like AUM, you would just need to select also the midi controller, then, I guess it should work.

I know that AUM doesn't handle this kind of feedback, hopefully in the futur.

At the moment, I initiate the default values from the BCR (like treble, medium, bass, volume...) to the most logical default values of a mixer, then I need to move a bit the knob, then, recalibrate to the proper value. Then I only use the knobs of the controller, the iPad is closed, then I concentrate on the music, not watching any screen...

Please, could you add midi feedback, and program change ?

PS: for all your great apps, that would be so cool...I know for Ruismaker, I'll test really to see how it goes soon. But I've started to play with your other synth, and I'd like to do this also with it...