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Is iOS music professional?

24

Comments

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @MonzoPro said:

    @OscarSouth said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @OscarSouth said:
    I think you guys are blurring the term 'professional' with the commercial/corporate music industry area.

    There are without doubt, more than thousands of professional musicians and music technology professionals using iOS heavily on a daily basis, all over this earth.

    Right now I'm watching a Korean Taegum player open up todays symposium (sound engineer is mixing on an iPad!) before we go and perform iOS+Khomus music based on traditions of the Sakha Republic. You won't see that on MTV!

    Fingers crossed there isn't an update nag halfway though the Thumbjam solo...

    Haha. I'm actually just using AUFX Dub/Space/Push, Crystalline, Frekvens and Stereo Designer, with a veeerrry in depth signal routing matrix inside AUM (digital feedback loops!!) and lots and lots of external controls.

    Because there's a lot of analog gear on the stage from our collaborators (analog group called 'Analog On' .. Moogs!!). I've stayed away from sound generation, so that the audience can visibly see that they're doing all the synthesis. I'm processing and resampling my wife's vocals live.

    Would love to hear/see a vid if you do one, sounds great!

    I'll keep you posted. There were cameras around and I also set up a couple of my own. I know that the sound was multitracked on the desk too. I'll collect it all together and try and put a video together (I don't have the kit to do it but I might be able to ask a friend to sync it up).

    I can tell you right now, having listened to your music, that it's definitely, absolutely, right up your street.

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    2.5 hour performance running 15+apps between AB2 and AUM (counting AU and IAA stuff too) with no bugs, crashes or audio errors. Go iOS!!

  • TritonmanTritonman

    @Cib said:
    My 2 cents (maybe worth just one):
    What is iOS music? Is it another genre i´m not aware of? I still wonder why people define their music because of devices and/or OS. Music is music...point!
    Professional music? You can make that with an ukulele or whatever if you want.
    It depends of what kind of music you do.
    Most people seems to talk about electronic music and here i would say iOS can do a lot.
    I still find it much more easy to make "high fidelity" sounds with synths like Zebra 2, Dune 2 and whatever monster synths for desktop.
    With some good extern FX and mastering a listener won´t hear a different anyway trough crappy Beatz or Apple headphones listening compressed files.
    Do you want to score a movie, making soundtrack or trailer, need surround sound and high quality reverbs and other obscure FX and large sample libraries etc, no way to do it on iOS on this level.
    Back to "iOS music". If i f.e. record a guitar into iOS, mangle it trough an app and use some loops from an app (which where made with hardware and processed with professional mastering tools etc. anyway mostly), is this iOS music?
    There are for sure a lot professionals using iPads as sound source, midi controller, performence tools etc. But is that important in any way for the music or listener.
    At the end it´s a computer. That´s it. I wont´t praise an OS made by a consumer oriented company and call music "iOS music".
    Do you think i´m talking nonsense.....maybe :D
    Music is music!

    Excellent!

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @Tritonman said:

    @Cib said:
    My 2 cents (maybe worth just one):
    What is iOS music? Is it another genre i´m not aware of? I still wonder why people define their music because of devices and/or OS. Music is music...point!
    Professional music? You can make that with an ukulele or whatever if you want.
    It depends of what kind of music you do.
    Most people seems to talk about electronic music and here i would say iOS can do a lot.
    I still find it much more easy to make "high fidelity" sounds with synths like Zebra 2, Dune 2 and whatever monster synths for desktop.
    With some good extern FX and mastering a listener won´t hear a different anyway trough crappy Beatz or Apple headphones listening compressed files.
    Do you want to score a movie, making soundtrack or trailer, need surround sound and high quality reverbs and other obscure FX and large sample libraries etc, no way to do it on iOS on this level.
    Back to "iOS music". If i f.e. record a guitar into iOS, mangle it trough an app and use some loops from an app (which where made with hardware and processed with professional mastering tools etc. anyway mostly), is this iOS music?
    There are for sure a lot professionals using iPads as sound source, midi controller, performence tools etc. But is that important in any way for the music or listener.
    At the end it´s a computer. That´s it. I wont´t praise an OS made by a consumer oriented company and call music "iOS music".
    Do you think i´m talking nonsense.....maybe :D
    Music is music!

    Excellent!

    It may not be a musical genre, but it is most certainly a niche of interest.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Cib said:
    My 2 cents (maybe worth just one):
    What is iOS music? Is it another genre i´m not aware of? I still wonder why people define their music because of devices and/or OS. Music is music...point!
    Professional music? You can make that with an ukulele or whatever if you want.
    It depends of what kind of music you do.
    Most people seems to talk about electronic music and here i would say iOS can do a lot.
    I still find it much more easy to make "high fidelity" sounds with synths like Zebra 2, Dune 2 and whatever monster synths for desktop.
    With some good extern FX and mastering a listener won´t hear a different anyway trough crappy Beatz or Apple headphones listening compressed files.
    Do you want to score a movie, making soundtrack or trailer, need surround sound and high quality reverbs and other obscure FX and large sample libraries etc, no way to do it on iOS on this level.
    Back to "iOS music". If i f.e. record a guitar into iOS, mangle it trough an app and use some loops from an app (which where made with hardware and processed with professional mastering tools etc. anyway mostly), is this iOS music?
    There are for sure a lot professionals using iPads as sound source, midi controller, performence tools etc. But is that important in any way for the music or listener.
    At the end it´s a computer. That´s it. I wont´t praise an OS made by a consumer oriented company and call music "iOS music".
    Do you think i´m talking nonsense.....maybe :D
    Music is music!

    +1

  • supadomsupadom

    @theconnactic said:
    Funny, I just posted the following on the Auria forum:
    _
    I think "traditional" users of DAWs and many developers failed to realize the impact of Ableton Live, and the way it was a game changer.

    **Full disclosure here: I hate Ableton live, I abhor clip launching and the so-called "live perfomances" that rely on it and reminds me of DJ'ing, and a DJ is NOT a musician. **

    That said, is a matter of fact the turntables approach, the clip launcher, auto time sync and other Ableton Live's features have been already for a while appealing to both the casual user and the musician that has the desire to compose music jamming, instead of doing old-school stricturing, arranging and editing. Couple that with the fact that making good music out of loops and electronic synths require a good discriminating taste, but not really music training or instrument skills, and you'll see the dimension of the problem.

    What happens is a legion of people with an Ableton Live (or its iOS quasi-counterpart, Korg Gadget) background takes that seamless and no-skills-or-training-required workflow for granted, as well as the ability of taking the DAW to the stage, enabling them to perform and record live, and approach the major iOS linear DAWs with this kind of expectations. Of course, that would only end up in frustration, and with the top dog iOS linear DAW, which is Auria, you can expect top dog frustration as well.

    The text became larger than I wanted, but I simply couldn't be more concise to show my point. I think, and worry about it, that many DAWs, iOS or otherwise, may find wise to take pages from Ableton Live to be apealing to this new kind of musician that sometimes is almost a DJ (meaning almost not a musician) to stay relevant, but by doing so, they would end up making things worse for us, the old school arrangers, composers and the professional mixing and mastering engineers. There is a Pro niche, but it is, indeed, a niche. So I never, and will never, disparage Rim or his work, because he remains commited to a niche, our niche, in a hostile platform, which is iOS._

    I PREDICT A RIOT

  • db909db909

    If you have fun with it then no, not professional. Professional things can only come through painstaking and tedious processes and tools that require years of blood sweat and tears to become remotely proficient at. Because nothing is easy in this life and if you don't experience at least a low level, constant pain and frustration then you're just not doing it right friend. Your music is no good.

  • Igneous1Igneous1

    @theconnactic said:

    **Full disclosure here: I hate Ableton live, I abhor clip launching and the so-called "live perfomances" that rely on it and reminds me of DJ'ing, and a DJ is NOT a musician. **

    Somewhat off topic that point...

    Back on-topic, it's a very moot point as to what is 'professional', personally, I think iOS needs improvements, but it very much depends on ones workflow.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Love3quency said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I think Korg makes a lot of money with iOS music so... yes? ;)

    First step would be to write a definition of 'iOS music' then 'professional'. Something tells me the symantec mucky muck would take over.

    I define iOS music as music made only with iOS apps from start to finish including mastering etc

    I think a professional focuses on their results and not on limiting their tools to fit under arbitrary umbrellas.

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    @Igneous1 said:

    @theconnactic said:

    **Full disclosure here: I hate Ableton live, I abhor clip launching and the so-called "live perfomances" that rely on it and reminds me of DJ'ing, and a DJ is NOT a musician. **

    Somewhat off topic that point...

    Back on-topic, it's a very moot point as to what is 'professional', personally, I think iOS needs improvements, but it very much depends on ones workflow.

    It's perfectly on topic, since it's one of the main premises of my personal evaluation of the professional music niche on iOS. Worth noting that when I say that a DJ is not a musician, I'm just stating a fact like "a flower is not a cat", not "a musician is better than a DJ"; also, I use the term "professional" not as a quality evaluation, but instead I mean people that make music for a living: there are many casual or semiprofissional musicians (not including DJs because a DJ is not a musician) that are way more skilled and talented than many pros.

  • supadomsupadom

    Can Patterning be used on a commercial track? Yes = professional

    Did I get paid playing a paid gig using my ios rig? Yes = professional

    Did I use thumbjam/loopy/Magellan /Impaktor in my music therapy work? Yes = professional.

    Put an idiot behind pro tools. Professional? No

    Case closed

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @supadom said:
    Can Patterning be used on a commercial track? Yes = professional

    Did I get paid playing a paid gig using my ios rig? Yes = professional

    Did I use thumbjam/loopy/Magellan /Impaktor in my music therapy work? Yes = professional.

    Put an idiot behind pro tools. Professional? No

    Case closed

    slam

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Love3quency said:
    Btw..by professional I mean..it sounds like it could be played on radio or clubs etc...in other words fully, polished tracks

    For sure this is possible!
    Funny thing was that i made a lot iPhone/iPad only tracks a few years ago and posted them in iOS soundcloud groups (created myself one of the biggest iOS groups there) and some were good and some bad but when i posted a few of them in a "normal" group and in groups for local radio stations i get 2 tracks in a local radio staton from Berlin.
    So i just think that sometimes it´s better to just let the music speak and even don´t mention how it was made. :)
    But i know what you mean and like i said i have done about 200 iOS only tracks which i think were not all bad and it felt like something special to say "woah, it was created on a freaking 3.5" iPhone 4".
    These days i see it as nothing special since they are just different forms of input and they offering similar tools to beeing creative and creating sounds.
    I felt too limited and migrated to desktop tools (which can be an expensive trip for sure) because i wanted to see what i can do with more "professional" tools.
    I don´t think the music and ideas itself are better because of this and sometimes it´s good to be limited to focus on a thing. But at the other side more choices and a lot better FX can be a big inspiration too.
    But to answer your question again......yes, i think a piece of music created with iOS only can be professional as any other piece of music with any kind of tool, form of input or made by any professional musician or talented hobbyist.
    Music is a great language!

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    @supadom said:
    Can Patterning be used on a commercial track? Yes = professional

    Did I get paid playing a paid gig using my ios rig? Yes = professional

    Did I use thumbjam/loopy/Magellan /Impaktor in my music therapy work? Yes = professional.

    Put an idiot behind pro tools. Professional? No

    Case closed

    Yes, precisely! Anyone that makes music for a living is a professional (from Webster, "having a particular profession as a permanent career") I dare to say, even the idiot behind ProTools - if he is being paid.

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    People, by sheer habit, and sometimes sheer ignorance, use the word "professional" as a compliment (the opposite, "amateur", as a slur).

    Professional is someone who makes income from an activity, regardless of what anyone thinks about his/her work. Period.

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    P.S.: and, of course, if a DJ is paid tp appear in a club, he/she is a professional. Just not a professional musician (a flower is not a cat; a DJ is not a musician). :smiley:

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @theconnactic said:
    P.S.: and, of course, if a DJ is paid tp appear in a club, he/she is a professional. Just not a professional musician (a flower is not a cat; a DJ is not a musician). :smiley:

    mu·si·cian
    myo͞oˈziSHən/
    noun
    a person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented.

  • theconnactictheconnactic
    edited April 2017

    This. Turntables are not instruments but means of phonographic reprodution. Thank you for posting this, @AudioGus. Now, back on topic. :)

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited April 2017

    From wickerpedium...

    A musician (or instrumentalist) is a person who plays a musical instrument or is musically talented.[1] Anyone who composes, conducts, or performs music may also be referred to as a musician.[2]

    "Come all you pushers of buttons and twiddlers, oh the times they are a chaaa-aaayy-aaaainjin..."

  • TarekithTarekith

    But can a musician be a DJ? :)

  • theconnactictheconnactic
    edited April 2017

    @AudioGus said:
    From wickerpedium...

    A musician (or instrumentalist) is a person who plays a musical instrument or is musically talented.[1] Anyone who composes, conducts, or performs music may also be referred to as a musician.[2]

    This. A DJ doesn't perfom music, he/she is performing DJ'ing of recorded performances by musicians. :)

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    @Tarekith said:
    But can a musician be a DJ? :)

    Yes! And a DJ can be a musician as well - but merely being a DJ doesn't make you a musician. I have some friends that are DJs and also musicians. :)

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @theconnactic said:

    @AudioGus said:
    From wickerpedium...

    A musician (or instrumentalist) is a person who plays a musical instrument or is musically talented.[1] Anyone who composes, conducts, or performs music may also be referred to as a musician.[2]

    This. A DJ doesn't perfoming music, he/she performing DJ'ing of recorded performances by musicians. :)

    Some people call anyone who makes dance music a DJ... silly people.

  • supadomsupadom

    @theconnactic said:
    P.S.: and, of course, if a DJ is paid tp appear in a club, he/she is a professional. Just not a professional musician (a flower is not a cat; a DJ is not a musician). :smiley:

    Yeah, it's a funny one that one.

    I used do think that DJs are not musicians and kind of still do. However since the emergence of electronic instruments things aren't as clear cut anymore. 70's sequencers and arms sound more glamorous than Ableton live scenes but are preprogrammed pieces all the same. A lot of electronic music today is pre-composed and simply launched and tweaked rather than being cooked on the spot.

    I guess this is home made lasagne vs lasagne from the supermarket scenario. They both get cooked in the oven but what a difference!

    P.s. Or is it self made lasagne, frozen for later consumption?

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    @supadom said:

    @theconnactic said:
    P.S.: and, of course, if a DJ is paid tp appear in a club, he/she is a professional. Just not a professional musician (a flower is not a cat; a DJ is not a musician). :smiley:

    Yeah, it's a funny one that one.

    I used do think that DJs are not musicians and kind of still do. However since the emergence of electronic instruments things aren't as clear cut anymore. 70's sequencers and arms sound more glamorous than Ableton live scenes but are preprogrammed pieces all the same. A lot of electronic music today is pre-composed and simply launched and tweaked rather than being cooked on the spot.

    I guess this is home made lasagne vs lasagne from the supermarket scenario. They both get cooked in the oven but what a difference!

    P.s. Or is it self made lasagne, frozen for later consumption?

    If I play a couple of video clips, does that make me a filmmaker? If I show you a photograph taken by a friend, does that make me a phptographer? If I read you an excerpt from a book, does that make me a writer?

    No, my friend: the lines are just clear cut as before, and the way you used to think is still correct. What happened is that, since the emergence of electronic music, musicians started to DJ and vice versa, but playing guitar still doesn't make you a DJ, the same way disc jocking doesn't make you a musician.

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    And yes, answering your question, ordering a meal or buying a lasagna in a supermarket will feed you, but that doesn't mean you are a chef. :)

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    Now, back on topic, kids! :D

  • theconnactictheconnactic

    @AudioGus said:

    Some people call anyone who makes dance music a DJ... silly people.

    Indeed!

  • ksoundksound

    @theconnactic said:
    This. Turntables are not instruments but means of phonographic reprodution. Thank you for posting this, @AudioGus. Now, back on topic. :)

    You are really dying to veer the conversation towards your DJ/musician dichotomy. We all understand that you think you have a great point--couldn't miss it in your eight rapid-fire posts leading with a quote of yourself from another forum. Maybe geek down a bit or start another thread?

  • Igneous1Igneous1

    Yes, it was off-topic or at least irrelevant.

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