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Retronyms Wej (or other BTLE hubs) and the Novation Launchpad MK2
Hello all,
Although I can get the Launchpad working fine with a USB hub, when using my wej the Launchpad indicates there is no communication with the iPad. Has anyone had any luck with this hardware and BTLE midi dongles or hubs?
Comments
It should be related to the usb id info not bypassed properly to the iDevice (and just data flow) so you can ask retronyms about their implementation and novation about open a bit their devices handshakes and allow users to avoid this kind of troubles (and control their apps with third party solutions until they release a foot controller...
)
@blocsxnovation
@Retronyms
Retronyms is pretty cool and responsive. I may ask them. I have no idea if I'm not configuring something properly or what, but the launchpad stays on "fireworks mode" which is what it does when the power is on but there's no connection to anything.
Out of sheer desparation/curiousity I pulled the hub out of my closet, long forgotten since the Wej, and boom - works! My Akai has always worked like a charm with the Wej.
I don't know much about the Novation Launchpad MK2 or how it works but if it is trying to send any data other than MIDI data, then it will not work with Wej. Wej is designed only for MIDI over Bluetooth to an iOS device using Apple's MIDI bluetooth protocol. It also requires your controller to use class compliant MIDI. Wej does not do audio over bluetooth.
-Eric
Eric - the launchpad is class compliant MIDI sending MIDI data and works with a standard wired hub. There's something about the bluetooth connection through the Wej that isn't transmitting data to or from the Launchpad. It has to be something specific to the pad because literally everything else works fine.
Does the Wej only transmit bluetooth, or does it also recieve? The launchpad has a 2 way connection and is always listening on 14-16 ( user choice ) and sending on 6 - 8 ( again, user choice ). It takes the midi data back to light up the pads in colors. I'm probably going to probe it with midiflow or something and failing that, sell the launchpad.
The little bit of info I have found suggests novation products are a little flaky with btle implementation. Anyone over there or that you know of tried it?
http://forum.liine.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2010&f=25&t=2010
http://cdm.link/2009/11/novation-releases-all-midi-details-for-launchpad/
http://audeonic.boards.net/thread/60/launchpad-app-novation-midi-devices
So in this case, it's not getting the "secret handshake" sent back through the Wej. I wonder if this is something easy to hack or if it's just a loss - I don't want it if it won't work with my Wej - usb hub/cck wires are a mess.
Edit:
Maybe @blocsxnovation could talk to @Retronyms and work for a solution (enabling Wej as compatible usb id source waiting for midi handshake from launchpad) and help users... but I'm not so versed in bt limitations (Apple bt midi even less) so maybe there is not solution for you until Novation release a bt-enabled launchpad...
I'll probably just sell the launchpad and get something to complement my akai mk2. Something with lots of buttons and knobs.
Korg has 2 bt controllers. Check opinions first to see how they work.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZP-ElX43FOg/hqdefault.jpg
Deleted. Wrong thread.
BT isn't a necessity because of the Wej. I'm looking at the arturia beatstep, but the step sequencer is a double edged sword because you can only sequence a single element. I've got the akai mini mk2 (which rules) and currently a korg nanopad 2. I'm thinking to sell off the launchpad, which is a shame, but the wej is a permanent part of my rig. It works well and is rock solid, and cuts way down on cable clutter
Beatstep pro maybe?
I'm thinking the regular beatstep cause knobs and pads. As it turns out, the problem is the Wej is not supplying enough power to the Launchpad RGB. Dunno how much it takes/needs, but that is indeed the problem. SOLVED.
Glad to read it
Just found out about the @Retronyms Wej. The FAQ still talks about 2015 as the future, but some people here have it? Is that based on a crowdfunding campaign? Is the product now out?
Would like honest comments about it, pros and cons, alternatives, etc. Maybe it’s all been discussed before in the forum but it can be hard to wade through everything plus the situation is likely to be changing.
At first blush, it sounds like it could solve some of my problems in terms of having a wireless setup for live performance. The price isn’t too bad, apart from shipping to Canada. But, at the same time, my main need is just for a BTLE bridge to my MIDI wind controller and there are simpler/cheaper solutions for that.
The Wej is really, really great. And retronyms is good and avaliable with 1-on-1 support. Their site documentation just leaves a bit to be desired. Basically if you have 2 standard class compliant usb midi devices to set up, you are all good.
I would make a handful of changes to the wej, namely, putting the power adapter rating/votage/etc on the back of the unit and the power adapter having some kind of locking mechanism (I've seen this on equpment before, basically twist to lock and unlock)
If you just have one thing you want to make bluetooth, yamaha and puc+ exist although I have heard Yamaha is a little janky. I'm not going to knock them for the launchpad issue, as it appears some Novation gear (especialy the launchpad RGB) has problems with iOS
Thanks for the feedback on Wej! These are all good suggestions and we will hopefully make a revision someday.
@Enkerli I'll see if we can get that FAQ updated.
Man, that sucks @anomieholiday as I was looking to use my Lauchpad Pro with Wej.... if it can't power the RGB, than it definitely won't work with my pro...What a shame. I guess I'll put the Wej off for now...
It should be able to power the LED's. I wonder what's going on here. I'll try to get a Launchpad Pro
The launchpad pro has it's own external power supply, so you might not see the same problems that I did with the RGB
It sure does bro, I didn't think about that. I just thought maybe their was a compatibility issue with launchpads in general.
I would first get a hold of a normal Launchpad RGB like @anomieholiday has, not a Launchpad Pro. Something tells me more people have the RGB version, and that should be addressed first...
Launchpad RGB issues probably are aside wej compatibility (which add extra troubles).
RGB grid controllers usually drove more energy than tricolor but even those have a low energy mode (launchpad mini f.e.) that's why powered hubs or external psu are recommended usually.
In the other hand the novation handshake which manages inControl sync needs to get information from vendor id data from the firmware. If wej doesn't bypass that properly (and idk how bluetooth makes it harder or not) then launchpad could not sync with the apps properly (as I stated before in this thread) so maybe retronyms needs to patch wej in some way that's blurred line into piracy (blame on Novation this time) or almost ask them to implement these bypass or fake vendor id emulation (and virtual port) when launch controller is plugged into it (wej). From the side of iOS you are connecting a bluetooth hub which for any reason I unknow it doesn't seems work as regular one.
Does the wej support audio devices too or just core midi class compliant?
Launch control InControl is not (or almost doesn't seems) a regular core midi since it only works with dedicated app from iPad side, like Traktor Z1 more or less...
@AmpifyxNovation @Retronyms could you give us some clearification or almost state if you are aware of all this issue and working on it? I don't have a wej but I'm curious about why not to fix which seems a known bug or design mistake...
@DanWalton are you wej dev?
Yes, Dan is one of the Wej Dev's/Creators so he may have the ability to speak to your comments about RGB issues better than I can. But I can tell you that Wej does not support Bluetooth Audio, only class compliant MIDI using Apple's MIDI over bluetooth protocol.
-Eric
Thanks Eric @Retronyms.
Glad you got it worked out. Great thread in general.
Considering that 'Plenty of power' is one of the called out Wej selling points, it would be great to get to the bottom of this. What's the draw from the LP RGB and what's the max output of the Wej?
I can't get stats on that from the website, but after talking with novation (them and retronyms have great support, btw) the behavior I'm seeing is caused by low power. I can sort of fiddle with the RGB and maybe 1/10 times it'll connect without the lights going on, and then it is fine for the wej. The BTLE connection isn't the problem, it's the power draw. For some odd reason it'll transmit midi on channel 1 when I can get it to go into that state.
Even hooking up the launchpad RGB with a powered USB hub and cck, it's still a little finicky with an iOS connection. If I was going to use it for anything at all live, it would be to pipe midi back out to the RGB for a lightshow. I'm definately looking to rid myself of the RGB as some AKAI kit I have works rock solid with the Wej. And to be clear, the Wej is a GREAT product and more stable than the korg btle keyboard I have. The only serious issue I have with the Wej is the power adapter can come easily unplugged if you're not careful, which could be fixed in a revision using a power link with one of those locking mechanisms.
I'd happily sell the RGB for a friendly price, trade for an AKAI midimix, or even lend/donate the device to Retronyms for further testing.
RETRONYMS!!!! Wanna borrow my RGB?
@anomieholiday then it's a design mistake by Novation?
We don't have a Wej here, but we'd be happy to have a chat and see if there's something we can do on our end to make this setup work if possible.
Well, from what I gather.... the problem
has nothing to do with btle tx/rx. Through a series of noodling I cannot consistently repeat, I can get the launchpad RGB to transmit midi on channel 1, albiet
with all the lights off.
Plugging the launchpad RGB into the Wej normally results in it getting "fireworks" "vegas" "screensaver"' mode (seen it called different things) which to my understanding means the RGB isn't getting enough power.
I don't think this problem would appear with the pro since it has its own AC adapter.
There's something "extra" the RGB wants - power, who knows? I think the pro should be okay
I'm in Houston, Texas - if anyone has a launchpad pro in the area, then I'd me more than happy to grab my Wej, test the theory and report back.
Alternately, if Novation would like to send me one to test this theory. I'll ship my RGB off to Retronyms bats eyelashes