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Do you record app output dry, and then add effects? Or, do you lock in effects.
I'm trying to decide if I want to freeze effects into my initial tracking.
Example: I just bought Pro-R, and I want to apply it to Ravenscroft. I could choose one of many Ravenscroft presets, and then run ~that~ through Pro-R, but I'm concerned about reverb rumble, etc.
TL;DR: How early do you lock effects into a recording? (I guess this could be asked on a general recording forum also.)
Comments
Perhaps the only effects I leave on while tracking or recording from an app’s output are amp sims (in this case, OverLoud THM). I never record the effect’s output, though: I always record dry but monitor through Overloud THM in real time (by leaving it on while tracking) so I can change the settings if I’m not satisfied.
Never lock in reverb. It has to be decided during the mix.
Get it sounding good as soon as possible. Leaving the reverb and delay off, til mixing, makes editing easier, that way when you cut, it doesn't cut off the tail of the reverb. It's good to hear the ambience effects when you are recording though, or coming up with the part, because it will change how you write, and perform.
I use heavy effects composing, and then record without, and recreate.
It depends. If you want to use huge reverb (like i do often) it works often better baked in a sample or single tracks since it won't make the sound muddy.
I mostly never use FX on the whole mix beside EQ, compression, limiter etc. But no reverb, delay etc.
But of course since i prefer it all via midi tracks these days it's easy to change things still before the final mixdown.
That said i often using several reverbs and delays per track. This way i get a much more clear and detailed sound rather than trying to add that to the whole.
But there is a big different in FX for mixing mastering or per track/stem in your song.
Of course the quality of the FX is important then. If a reverb is aliasing it will add up with each instance and sounds like a noisy mess.
If you f.e. bake in a reverb in a chromatic sampled sound source it will be more easy to not mess up the sound if you play huge chords with long releases.
Hell, i even like using FX per voice....but that´s mostly too cpu intense.
I always lock in effects asap, if I'm happy with how it sounds at the time, good enough for me. I don't believe in a demo state when it comes to making music.
I agree. I experienced that i mostly "destroy" my tracks when i try to change too much at the whole mix and master it just to death. I see it also if it sounds good while i play it i just leave it like that.
I even put often all my mastering FX (if i use them) from the beginning or at a very early stage to the output because otherwise i find it hard to manage it anymore without destroying the whole character of my track.
I also hate this "as loud as possible" thing these days. If i have some nice dynamics and place for each sound to breath i´m happy. Why must i put all these mastered track to 50% of the volume output?
It really depends on a track by track, instrument by instrument basis.
What is the desired effect?
On a side note: MrsChasteen who is one of my sometimes collaborators and I have been going round and round for decades as to whether vocals should be recorded dry or wet. She likes a rich reverb as she is singing and I always reply, "Well, y'know, ya can't take it off..."
There are two schools of thought here, and I've recently converted from one to the other,
1) Record everything dry. This way you have more control during the mix phase, and you're not stuck with an effect that you can't remove. This provides more flexibility overall and I used to do this exclusively.
2) Record things in the state that they inspire you in. While this can make mixing more difficult later on and eliminates the option of putting all your instruments in the same "room" reverb-wise, there's something to be said for not putting off your inspiration. This is what I've come around to. If you're smart and inspired with the sounds, you can always make it work later. Sometimes a track won't pop the same way it did when you first came up with the idea and the sound was drenched in delays, etc.
You have to pick which works best for your work flow. My schooling taught me to be diligent, organized, single track everything and record it all dry as a bone. But remember too that some of the best recordings are made with a single mic in the center of the room, and that's just as valid.
What's the best technique to get the song you want? Use that and forget the nay-sayers. People only inevitably care about how the finished product sounds. If they (or you) like the end result, it justifies the process.
Doubleplus this!
I tend to keep things dry other than compression and some eq. Just so that I can fit everything into the mix better. As others have said, if there's a reverb or some other fx that sounds right at the time, I'll keep it. If in the final mix, it isn't quite right, go back and re-record. Unless of course it's like the most amazing audio vocal or guitar take that you'll ever do...
The ideal way to record with reverb, would be to use a bus reverb (where you have sends from each channel going to one reverb, and be able to monitor the DAW sound while you record. That way you hear it, but you can change the amount or type of reverb later, but if you like what you hear, you don't have to do anything.
It usually isn't good, for mixing cohesion, to have a separate reverb on each track. It gets unmanageable with lots of tracks, and it doesn't make a lot of sense, sonically, that every instrument is in a different space. A bunch of instances of a high quality reverb, like a convolution reverb, will bring the cpu to its knees, in a big project. You can edit the bus reverb, and instantly hear the all the instruments bussed to it change together, rather than going through, and changing 10 reverbs, one at a time, if you wanted to see how, say, a plate reverb would sound rather than a small hall.
The usual exception is a lead vocal, it can make sense to have a special tailored reverb or two for that, and maybe the snare drum. Or any special effect sound, that is supposed to have a radical reverb. But as far as gluing the tracks together, it's messy doing all the tracks' ambience reverbs as insert effects, when you can bus.
I always go in dry, then leave muddy
To add on to Processasaurus, I usually now have a dry track, that I send via bus to two more tracks - one becomes the dry, the other the verb/effects track. That way I can mix down much easier, having a nice simple way to balance verb/delay, etc., against dry. The issue I always have with adding it all in ahead of time, is that by the time I get to the end, I have a soggy reverb mess. But again, whatever works for you.
The book on mixing that I found most effective says to leave it all off, get the tone and balances rights, get the dynamics where you want them, then add the affects, only IF they are needed. Most folks record a track, then start hitting it with everything under the sun. Then you add on the next instrument, and it all sounds like crap, and you've just wasted fours getting a sound that doesn't work in the mix.
whenever possible I record dry + fx on separate tracks, balancing stuff later as rickwaugh mentioned.
No recording of drum kits here, so it's a low track count anyway.
I prefer reverb per track and don't try to model physical ambiences - but of course reverb choice is according to instrument and overall context.
Usually the dry track is always in the mix and there may be a 3rd track for special processing of snippets from either the dry or the wet part.
I put most effort in the choice of sources and rarely eq or compress in a mix.
Dynamic balance ist achieved by something similiar to FF's Pro-L in most cases, unless I want it pumping, used on tracks and for final output. (Saw-Studio Levelizer, a plugin specific to that old fart of a DAW)