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Drumagog tips please!
Apologies if there's already a full thread on this.
I've just got drumagog through Auria Pro and I'm trying to pick individual kick and snare etc out of a mixed drum track (which contains kick snare hats etc).
It's a very busy rock drum track.
The way I've gone about it is to have a copy of the drum track for drumagog kick and a copy for the drumagog snare. I've then tried to put an eq on the channel strip to eq everything out except the sound I'm trying to trigger. Then I've put drumagog on the insert channel strip.
I'm having mixed success so far, so wondered if there were any good tips on this!
Comments
Well what you're trying to do is pretty difficult, Drumagog is designed to work with stems rather than stereo mixes, because isolating the kick and snare from a mix can be really difficult. The one thing that might help is that the actual quality of the trigger sound can be complete garbage (since it's being replaced by Drumagog) so if you can find frequencies where there is no spill from other sounds, even if it's a really narrow range, then it could work.
BTW you should be able to get some extra samples for Drumagog if you send your iTunes Store receipt to [email protected]
Interested in this also, especially success stories. Have never taken Drumagog out of the quivver.
I thought it was on the tough side! I'm getting the kick picking up the occasional tom and sometimes a snare. Further tweaking and understanding the functions on drumagog should help. I've gone for cutting everything on the eq except where the kick resides and the same for the snare track.
For kick I've tried to isolate around 90hz and snare about 2khz.
Some of the sliders on drumagog work well when I mess around with them.
Thanks for the extra samples tip! Do they email you a file?
One further thing - I'm assuming that because I've got the isolating eq before drumagog on the strip, the eq isn't affecting the actual drumagog sample?!
Yes that's right.
I've done a bit of experimenting, will post back shortly.
I'm impressed so far! I have a fair few tracks in the vault that have a single drum mix and to be able to beef them up with kick and snare samples is a great thing.
So much easier than programming your own in to compliment the drum track.
Thanks again @richardyot
I've read through some of the old drumagog posts on your Auria tips thread, you really are a font of all knowledge! All hail!
Careful, we know he's the repository of much wisdom, but a flattered font can dry up in the warm fug of complacency and then where would we be?
I will preface this post by saying that I normally would prefer to use Drumagog on drum stems, because that's where it really shines, and generally if I want to edit a stereo drum track where all the drums are already mixed I would always reach for Pro-MB first - it's much easier and quicker.
However you can use Drumagog on a stereo mix, but it's pretty difficult. One cool thing about doing this is that if you successfully isolate the drums you can then use audio quantisation to change the feel, which is pretty cool. I've used the FF plugins here rather than the channel strip, just because they're more surgical.
So to begin with I've imported a drum loop (I tried to find the busiest one I could) and duplicated it 3 times in three separate tracks on the timeline. The loop sounds like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3burwo8w5hcfzqr/Drumagog 1.wav?dl=0
So the first step is to isolate the kick drum, here I've used Pro Q2 with HP and LP filters set to the steepest slope of 96db/oct:
This works to an extent, but even if you surgically target the kick frequency, you will still get some of the snare (harmonics presumably). So to eliminate those I used Pro G. There is a gate in Drumagog itself, but Pro G allows for more control, and crucially allows me to increase the volume of the output, which means Drumagog will have a better signal to work with:
I add drumagog and this is the result, the kick is mixed with the original track, you can hear there is some audible latency which needs to be fixed.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/acq9lpo8hcu8u9t/Drumagog 2.wav?dl=0
To fix the latency I bounce the track in place:
This adds even more latency (this is a bug in Auria which I reported years ago), so I need to manually line up the transients on the timeline:
But now the result sounds much better:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4bp6kc2z7wn66r/Drumagog 3.wav?dl=0
I go to the next track to try and isolate the snare with Pro Q2:
Add a Pro G after that, then to Drumagog:
Again there will be some latency, so I bounce in place and line up the transients, this is the result:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4utzjs9cf41oz00/Drumagog 5.wav?dl=0
And finally I want to go back to the original stereo mix and try to isolate the cymbals and remove the original kick and snare (as much as possible). I start with Pro Q2:
But the harmonics from the kick and snare are still audible, and I can't use a gate here because the cymbals ring the whole time, so I turn to Pro-MB to try and reduce the amplitude of those kick and snare harmonics:
With that done I've more or less completely replaced the original kick and snare from the stereo track, and it now sounds like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qvj9po8rf7e2h5/Drumagog 6.wav?dl=0
It is actually possible to replace the cymbals in Drumagog as well, using the final track that isolated them, but I find when doing this it's very hard to preserve the subtleties of the rhythmic feel, they don't always translate well to the replacement samples. YMMV though.
Now to the interesting aside: with the kick and snare isolated on their own tracks, you can change the whole rhythmic feel of the loop.
Select the waveform of the kick in the timeline, and get Auria to detect the transients:
Then on the track header if you activate the transients by tapping the little button marked "off" you can see where they have been added (it will change to say "trn"):
Tap the "trn" button one more time so it switches to "warp" and you can then move the transients around, either manually or by quantisation:
Let's use a groove template to change the feel:
Do the same to the snare track, and you've changed the timing of your original loop!
@richardyot Wow! This is fantastic!
I really can't express how much I appreciate you taking the time out for this!
Your top tip of moving a mix into GB to use the drummer, resulted in piecing together a great sounding rock drum track.
Obviously, this meant it was a mixed drum track, but I now have the tools to isolate kicks n snares to give it that oomph!
I don't think complacency will set in, but just in case, I'll tone it down a tad.
@richardyot
Yeah, cheers. That helped a bit.
No worries
(I'll have words with Mr Goodyear later).
Drumagog is amazing for when u need to record live drums. My advice to you on this subject is to buy a tascam 788 (they're cheap now), I think it records up 7-8 track simultaneously. Here's a link https://www.ebay.com/itm/263066891492
.. record your drums thru the 788 in one take and they'll on be on separate tracks. Hook up the tascam to the IPad with the cck kit using a midi to USB cable. Use "midi time code" to sync the 788 to auria pro.
Record each of the tracks into auria pro individually. 1 at a time... And there u have it... an entire drum kit, tracked out and ready for drumagog.
I used to do this on a desktop. I am completely blown away that i am able to achieve this on an iPad Air 2 with auria pro and drumagog. It literally is a game changer when it comes to recording live drums.
Here is a link to the midi to USB cable you will need. https://www.ebay.com/itm/361900599322 I've tested this workflow and it works flawlessly. Auria pro has mtc (midi time code) which is amazing. Wonderful daw.
I program all my drums, so that ones not for me
If I had a drummer available to use on my songs, I'd wait for them to finally stop playing, then tell them I'll get it right in the mix.
What is the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
You only have to punch the information into the drum machine once.
Only joking, I've actually known some decent people who played drums.
Wow! Great topic!
2 tips for you, both a tiny bit time consuming but should work fine. In GarageBand, if you're using the drummer tracks, just turn all of the other parts off but kick and snare, then bounce the track (solo it before you bounce) to audio, then do that again for cymbals, toms, etc, whatever you have on the track. Or, just solo the kick and snare, bounce that, then bounce the whole part, but use the kick and snare track just to trigger your samples. You can cut the track up and place kick hits on one track, snare on another, with each track having drumagog on it.
Or, if you prefer to stay in auria, just place any noise that will trigger drumagog on a track, placgin it where each kick hit is, and on snare track, where each snare hit is.
Finally, one other thing is you could load it into GarageBand on Mac, which then gives you a lot more choices as far as mixing the pieces of the kit and using alternate drum kits with the same beat. But if you are trying to do iOS only then that's not an option.
Hope that was helpful.
Oh, one other tip- find a good drummer to record parts for you, that's the best way!
I'd already tried to silence the other parts after making enough copies for separate parts but on my iPad at least, it wouldn't turn off the other instruments when I de-selected them.
I may have been doing it wrong though so I'll have another go. Maybe Mac version is more flexible, but I can't afford one
Thanks for suggestions!
I was only Kidding about those old drummer jokes.
I couldn't have a live drummer as I'm on a tight budget and I do all my recording in a back bedroom.
Besides that, he might sleep with my girlfriend.
@mrufino1
Actually, I might give a this a go. Even tapping the various beats out with a pencil on a table might work!
All this stuff brings out the amazed child in me.
You may be right, you may not be able to unselect the other part. If you have a talk that your need it done to though I am happy to run it down on my Mac.
I just checked, and you can unselect the hats, etc, but then it changes the part.
Manually placing the samples like I said though to trigger drumagog would work though.
I've used Drumagog to replace snares and kicks from a stereo mix by slicing all the snare/kick hits from the stereo track and pasting them on their own track. Very time consuming but well worth the effort. Not having the snare/kick hits in the stereo track allows for some eq options that wouldn't normally work with the snare on the track.
I've also copied the snare hits to their own track and kept the original, mixing, eq-ing, reverbing, and compressing to add some pop or depth to the snare.
A good snare/kick sound, mixed the way you want, goes a long way. Sometimes you'll find the toms and cymbals will work with a replaced snare and or kick.
Didn't see that comment - that's a great way to do it!
Regarding the tapping parts out with a pencil and then replacing with Drumagog, I've actually done a tutorial on that in the Auria Tips and Tricks thread. I'll try and track it down tomorrow.
I think that may be where I got that germ in my head! I've been reading through all the old audiobus posts, trying to become an instant Auria Ninja. I'm such a sponge at times, soaking up stuff.
+1
Here's the post:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/183109/#Comment_183109