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BM3 add more than 8 tracks on sequencer?
Is it possible to add more than 8 tracks (bank a to h) to the sequencer song mode on BM3. I know that it is possible on the pad to add more separate instruments and samples but on the song mode it's limited to 8 separate parts. I am wanting to arrange more than 8 tracks of AUv3 plugins and samples on the song mode sequencer.
Comments
It's not limited in song mode. If you have multiple instruments on the same bank/pad you just have to tap the small piano icon when opening a pattern in song mode
i think he means if we can move around more than 8 pattern Layers. it IS a limitation currently. I'm getting around this by rendering to audio and moving stuff around in the audio layers. its very difficult to offset a single instrument layer within a pad in the song mode. you have to open the pattern and edit it. while if we had access to them directly in the song mode it would take less than a second.
Oh right
Yes, i agree and it would also make importing midi files much less of a chore
This seemed to be biggest reaction & feature Request to Intua , who have recognised this issue . According to various posts ,& on their Forum, they are looking to either add more Banks or return to BM2 idea where individual midi tracks of each instrument within a Bank can appear independently in Sequencer view .
I'd be fine with either fix to be honest. Even 26 banks would be enough (since there are 26 letters in the alphabet). Most of my projects even on desktop rarely if ever cross 20 layers. Plus the audio layers are infinite so I think 26 is more than enough.
Yeah that's what I mean. The limit of 8 tracks seems very limited considering I would like to arrange and move more than 8 tracks in the sequencer timeline.
just because its 8 banks doesnt not mean its only 8 tracks. each bank can have 64 tracks. each pad is its own track. go to the mixer view hit pad sounds and you get the mixer for the bank
I think you misunderstand what we are saying. Yes. You can have upto 1024 layers. But you can only move 8 blocks at a time. You cannot offset a single layer without having to edit the pattern. Which is extremely tedious when you have multiple layers per bank. What takes seconds when being able to move each layer unnecessarily takes minutes with complex layers.
But you can layer patterns on top of each other if needed even in the current release version.
This area will improve for sure...
As a 'Tracker Addict'(Renoise) I'm perfectly happy with one BM3 bank with 128 instruments...
Actually it's 128 tracks
Both would be nice.
Not being a BM2 user I'm surprised to hear that they had an independent MIDI tracks function in BM2 but abandoned it in the new version.
Yeah, that's all very well but there is no way to get more than 8 separate instrument tracks in the sequencer timeline for example have track 9 come in the middle of a song and track 10 come at the end.
I agree, I wish they would go back to the bm2 style of sequencing in song mode
Selective muting of tracks within banks? nah maybe not
Totally. I think it is just hard for people to grok. Once I saw the export roll-out with separate pads I was like 'oh right... of course. Sweet.'
Yeah I was thinking of that too. I might try that when I get home.
When I discovered the 8 bank limitation and the subsequent “work arounds” I decided to bench BM3 at least for now.
Maybe this why the timeline view was withheld from the public for so long?
Is it really a problem with the "limitation" of 8 MIDI-tracks to be honest?
Can't we just export some of the tracks to audio and import it again as a audiotrack?
It ain't any limitations with the numbers of used audiotracks (what I can see)...
I'll speculate it's more likely the developers were not creating an app based upon a traditional timeline based DAW functionality and approach so I suspect their decision to address it in the app came later in development and the disappointment of traditional timeline based DAW users is reflected in this. For people expecting a traditional DAW approach, they're going to be disappointed because this is not the app they're looking for.
It's more of an annoyance. For people that are used to committing to audio early and often, maybe not so much of an issue. But I like to sketch patterns, not worrying too much about the individual sounds, then go back and tweak sounds once everything is playing together. Or, further patterns may take on a different character, so I might want to tweak again. That is so much easier to do when the plugin is right there. Once committed to audio, I need to go back and replace too many things. I'm also conscious of the added storage all that commit to audio means.
Failure to commit ... probably why I get so little done. But I don't want software to force my own workflow change.
Not having a an easy visualization of what is happening with each of the pads in a pattern in the timeline, and not being easily able to move each around is cumbersome. For instance, I often like to break out the hi-hats and percussion into separate patterns, so that it's easy to decide to use them or not. The timeline is of little use there unless I commit to audio.
It's manageable, but kind of annoying.
Selective pad muting would go a long way
It's there, in pads view. I haven't investigated whether pad muting can be recorded or automated though.
I've experimented with BM3 and I think I've overcome the 8 track limitation by using the pads in the Bank A pad view and in each of the pads using patterns of these instruments/samples as each instrument and dragging a pad chord pattern over a bass pattern in the Bank A timeline on the sequencer and it gives me the bass pattern mixed with the pad chord and so on. Each track is on top of each other rather than in vertical rows seen on a traditional linear sequencer.
It can! You might need to unmute everything before the song starts but the pad muting will automate as you would expect it too! Pad muting and scene switching are very powerful performance tools!
All right then! Coolnesses abound.
The catch is the automation recording has to be set on and the automatons have to be done in the mixer.
Clearly BM3 is designed to emulate a groove box/sampler/drum machine for the iOS world. In the terminology of these kinds of hardware it was/is a track. Back in the day the MPC if I remember correctly had 4 banks of 16 tracks. That was the terminology then. These was no mention of "containers" that's a term you have made up. I'm not looking to argue with anyone about this, and yes Intua has a some information on their website but so what. Really who cares. There's more than enough tracks already. What people are really asking for is better midi sequencing capabilities, which I am in favour of.
Edit: incidentally when you go to track export and choose bank mode it says "tracks." So there's your proof.
Thank you very much. I was not even sure why this was even being debated. That’s why I simply put the app down for now.
It's not a question of "add more than 8 tracks on sequencer", because the song view isn't the sequencer, and each bank's pattern isnt a track that somehow adds up to 8 tracks in the song view.
Each bank's pattern is itself a sequencer (of up to 64 tracks):
When each bank's pattern is rendered as audio (i.e. for export), the midi from each track/pad in each pattern (each track/pad of the up-to-64 per bank) is rendered as a separate stem. (As opposed to some kind of mix down of the bank)
It's the same when audio tracks are assigned to record realtime from the banks in song or Scene mode: it's one audio track per pad/track in each banks pattern, (rather than one audio track per entire bank.) So you assign one midi track to Kick, HH, snare, lead etc etc. and mix and render accordingly
Working in multitrack midi patterns is a different way of working for sure...they aren't midi clips like Ableton, or Bitwig or Modstep. Each "clip" can be the length of a song, and contain up to 64 discrete midi tracks (that contain within each if needed a full scale piano roll). It's true you can't slip and slide midi track info from one banks pattern to the next adjacent pattern on the song mode timeline, but that's true of midi tracks in any conventional arranger. Each clip is distinct from the ones on either side. The difference in BM3 is that each banks pattern clip is a multi-midi track arranger of its own, and discrete midi tracks can move relative to one another within those patterns.
I come from making beat on my maschine studio so I know how to get multitrack recording in and out. Just because you cant do it ot figure it out doesnt mean it cant be done. When I export all my tracks they are allways tracked out. You can call them lanes highways stems whatever It works I have more than 8 tracks when I export or mix But then again we all make tracks differently. I use send sub groups I dont put to many effects on just one sound I EQ it