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"The Playstation Paradox" - thoughts about the iOS hardware upgrade ratrace...

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Comments

  • @realdavidai said:

    @cian said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    iPads are closed boxes and have little to no upgrade possibilities.

    >

    Yet, every Apple Store, or for that matter most computer stores could, with very little outlay, include a service to upgrade the storage and RAM of iPads.

    Except, Apple do not want this, and with desktop hardware have resorted to gluing cases shut and soldering in RAM specifically to prevent owners performing their own upgrades.

    This is the world's biggest tech company under Tim Cook; unable to innovate, unwilling to provide value for money, and mean-spirited.


    I do feel that Apple have entered the John Scully years of their renaissance. Though it's a tough transition. Phones are rapidly becoming commodities, iPads sell less and have a longer upgrade cycle, while the iWatch... Talk about a limited market.

    Meanwhile computers have long since become an essentially flat market, hardware innovation has slowed to a crawl and the newer computers don't really offer much that most people care about.

    Hardware innovation has slowed to a crawl? Isn’t this precisely what some people are asking for? So... stop the hardware innovation and fire all the engineers and instead focus on new software optimization. No new features of course. People will just buy the faster version of the software. So fire the new feature guys and just keep a small core of rock star assembly language programmers who will refine the code till the end of Time.

    Sounds like a plan.

    Just let chaos and human nature rule as usual. :)

  • @brambos said:

    @cian said:
    The problem that Apple has is that the competition (in particular Samsung) are literally competing on features.

    And since that's not a clever competition (you don't want to compete on price/features with an Asian manufacturer, especially when they actually produce everyone's components themselves) it's a cycle you want to escape, lest you become a commodity. Just specs are not going to be enough of a meaningful differentiation with a Galaxy Something 9.

    Well currently their differentiation is the UX. I think the idea is that Apple products are roughly on a par in terms of tech, but have greatly superior UX. I think what you're proposing for them would be a big risk, and might bring up memories of the 90s (when the tech was vastly inferior, but they tried to trade on the Apple brand).

    Another problem they have is that the tech press (written by tech illiterates) focus almost exclusively on hardware specs.

  • I use old iDevices as one-function machine and I will keep doing it use them as the perfect embed solution for musical apps. Since these are cheaper than dedicated solutions it's an obvious path to me. Let me explain with few examples...
    My old iPhone 4 is now the synth part of my hand,ade keytar.
    My old iPad 3 prd gen is now on my mothers hands but it could be a great looper machine with loopyHd+behringer is202
    My actual mini4 probably will be a mainstage replacement running AUM and few sampler/synths or loop based sampler with Novation apps nd launch controllers.
    My actual 5s will be recycled into audio fx unit and/or djing unit with the proper hardware combo (old vestax for dvs route or Phillips M1X for pool parties)
    I have sold my late 2012 mac mini with ssd etc since I was using it for traktor, mainstage and Pages. I get bored of Arduino coding or Ableton/Max7... being the first possible with cheap raspi or netbook and the second too with puredata on Raspi too...

    So my next computer-like machines probably could be:
    Shared iMac at coworking space (the subscription model but for hardware) since I need it less and less (today I used my nephew late 2012 macbook pro and I have forgot the good but I have also experience the bad and hated it so badly...)
    An Android or another old and cheap iPhone (probably SE) when I get all my embedding needs fullfiled just for calls and AudioShare :tongue:
    An iPad pro the day I can afford it and let me use Pages or some coding without being a pita to just select text :bawling:

    From these POV if the right one-app it will have cost a bit more, let's say 100€ (lemur was 50€ and Auria pro goes over that) I can see the point since the embed platform will not cost 1000€ (like mpc live...)

    That's where I am but I'm not the most common user of any target :lol:

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  • edited September 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited September 2017

    @realdavidai said:.
    Hardware innovation has slowed to a crawl? Isn’t this precisely what some people are asking for? So... stop the hardware innovation and fire all the engineers and instead focus on new software optimization. No new features of course. People will just buy the faster version of the software. So fire the new feature guys and just keep a small core of rock star assembly language programmers who will refine the code till the end of Time.

    Sounds like a plan.

    a strange conclusion - hardware guys are only remotely related to software design.
    You may have missed that my original point (which cian quoted) wasn't about 'everything in assembly from now on...'
    Regular code can be written in many different ways, and not all is created equal.
    It's not about endless tweaks, but about well considered designs before coding starts.

    Making things complicated tightens (business) relationships - in particular if you rely on a 'big company'.
    Adobe produced very lean software in their beginnings - look what they've become.

    @cian I fully agree that OS9 was quite a mess, but imho it's fate was already sealed before it was released - and after that it took 5 releases of OSX until it grew solid with version 10.6 over a period of 7(!) years.

    Tbh in all my years of support I've never seen anyone doing something on a Mac that he or she didn't do in pre-OSX MacOS.
    E-Mail, Photoshop, XPress, Indesign, Acrobat, Word, Excel, Powerpoint were 90% of the applications. Apple never entered the corporate market in any significant scale.
    The only thing that changed was online stuff/webbrowsing, but that's a different story.

    Well, way too old stuff anyway - but I can't fight the feeling of groundhog day regarding the situation @brambos describes in his initial post.

  • Excellent piece brother @brambos You hit on so many points that I think all of us who've been into any kind of tech the last 25 years can totally relate to.

    I do think some tech manufacturers have planned obsolescence, if not flat out engineered obsolescence. Whether Apple does this or not (ahem, wink wink) the big culprit is our commercial society.

    Caveat emptor: I'm a total left-wing democratic socialist but I realize human nature can never be overcome. The billionaire corporate magnates and staunch capitalists DON'T WANT things to change.

    So a company like Apple getting off the hamster wheel of perpetual updates and claiming law of diminishing returns technology is "the new, best, greatest ever (until next year)" just won't happen in my view.

    That leaves it up to small app developers to try and optimize apps for both older & newer technology, something that no doubt takes away from their bottom line. The video game analogy was perfect; just when the technology & OS are "mastered" by devs the newer trapdoor laden OS shows up with a new device to learn and program for.

    Do I want a brand new 10.5" iPad Pro 256GB/4GB RAM? Of course. Is my iPad Air 2 64GB/2GB RAM a relic that can't be used to make music anymore? Hell no! The consumer will drive the ship however and I totally admit to being part of the problem...I want the new cut, especially if ot means a faster processor & especially if it means more storage.

  • Im REALLY apprehensive about updating my Ipad Air 2 to IOS11 when it comes out, I tried keeping up with the latest IOS with my Ipad 2 and that things runs sooooooooo slow compared to when I first got it. It feels like IOS's are designed to make you older devices worse so you feel like you need to get a newer one. My Ipad Air 2 runs fine now, but Im weary of IOS11 slowing it down.

  • @Telefunky said:

    @realdavidai said:.
    Hardware innovation has slowed to a crawl? Isn’t this precisely what some people are asking for? So... stop the hardware innovation and fire all the engineers and instead focus on new software optimization. No new features of course. People will just buy the faster version of the software. So fire the new feature guys and just keep a small core of rock star assembly language programmers who will refine the code till the end of Time.

    Sounds like a plan.

    a strange conclusion - hardware guys are only remotely related to software design.
    You may have missed that my original point (which cian quoted) wasn't about 'everything in assembly from now on...'

    I don't consider it strange. Some people here are suggesting that hardware should not be upgraded. Or that Apple should stop making new hardware. Freeze it for 5 years? I'm just wondering what you do with those engineers in the interim. :D I wasn't even referring to anything you wrote :)

  • @Strizbiz said:
    Im REALLY apprehensive about updating my Ipad Air 2 to IOS11 when it comes out, I tried keeping up with the latest IOS with my Ipad 2 and that things runs sooooooooo slow compared to when I first got it. It feels like IOS's are designed to make you older devices worse so you feel like you need to get a newer one. My Ipad Air 2 runs fine now, but Im weary of IOS11 slowing it down.

    Absolutely @Strizbiz I'm a big believer that a device is designed for, and runs best on, the OS era it was developed and released on. Whether that's engineered obsolescence or just the march of technology is a fine line. I do think there comes a time to upgrade and move on...I don't expect my first PC I ever got in 1995, an eMachines 75mHz CPU with 1GB hard drive, to run ProTools 12 flawlessly. But when a devices specs are still in the ballpark of the new cut, or just a generation or two behind, it should not become a paperweight with an OS update.

    The thing is people want the new features a new OS brings. Since I got my Air 2 in Feb. of 2015 I haven't wanted a feature more than the new iOS 11 Files system. But when I tried to hold my breath and stay on iOS 8 or 9 one of my favorite apps would either update to iOS 10 only or get features you'd really want requiring an OS update to get them.

    It's one of those grin and bear it situations where you either eat it and upgrade/buy the new hardware, etc. or you try to make due with what was working fine yesterday, today, and just attempt to overcome the crippling anxiety that yes, there is something BETTER & FASTER than what you're "stuck with"! :sweat:

  • @brambos said:
    Thanks for the feedback, people. Obviously I don't see this happening any time soon (or, realistically, at all). It would be like trying to turn around an oil tanker going at full velocity.

    However, the thought experiment was about hypothesizing a viable model that would involve less "hardware obsolescence" and still result in continually-improving experience for the end user.

    Mind you, this is not about music apps per se... the same would apply to mobile games (a huge part of Apple's software revenue) and other app categories. So I'm not sure the "music is a niche" argument is necessarily an obstacle in this case.

    And indeed... it may be that your iPad won't last the full lifecycle (although I think 5 years should be possible), but as seen in the Playstation realm: Sony typically introduces a cheaper "slim" version of its console thalfway through its lifecycle. Component prices will have decimated by then, so they can be sold cheaper yet with the same (or even higher) margins.

    I think Apple are already headed in the direction you've indicated. The mobile market is maturing. The hardware functionality between devices isn't as great, there are two lines of iOS devices both for phones and iPads. iOS 11 starts to address file management.

    There is a long way to go but I do think Apple realizes they have to pivot and create a market for pro apps to run on pro iOS devices to grow this segment of their market. They'll have to improve iOS infrastructure, make it a platform that's not dependent upon computers for anything, and continue to improve the file system and networked/modular app use as iOS devices take over the personal computing market for Apple.

  • Nice article. I hope it becomes reality. While I like that ipad apps are really affordable, I'd happily pay $80 for a modstep that was reliable enough to use live (although most pc plug-ins cost more than that unfortunately).

  • edited September 2017

    @realdavidai said:

    @Telefunky said:

    @realdavidai said:.
    Hardware innovation has slowed to a crawl? Isn’t this precisely what some people are asking for? So... stop the hardware innovation and fire all the engineers and instead focus on new software optimization. No new features of course. People will just buy the faster version of the software. So fire the new feature guys and just keep a small core of rock star assembly language programmers who will refine the code till the end of Time.

    Sounds like a plan.

    a strange conclusion - hardware guys are only remotely related to software design.
    You may have missed that my original point (which cian quoted) wasn't about 'everything in assembly from now on...'

    I don't consider it strange. Some people here are suggesting that hardware should not be upgraded. Or that Apple should stop making new hardware. Freeze it for 5 years? I'm just wondering what you do with those engineers in the interim. :D I wasn't even referring to anything you wrote :)

    no need stop anything: Apple's original developer guidelines said as long as your code confirmed to those, it would run on any (!) future release of the OS - they'd take care of the environment.
    The Oracle network driver was a stunning example: released for MacOS 6 it continued to work without any updates in 7, 8, 9 and even the 1st version of OSX.
    We used to run the server side on MacOS, too (a brilliant replacement for a Novell system), but switched to an NT box when Oracle gave up their Mac implementation - not a single problem in transition.
    That kind of reliability is crucial as it allows you to scale up WHEN needs rise - not because an obsolence is constructed to trigger sales.

    The 64-bit issue is one of those things à la mode: which IOS device features more than 4GB of Ram and how many Win tablets, notebooks, desktops actually HAVE only 4GB of Ram on board, many of them not even extendible.
    But the 64bit figure is a sales argument you just cannot let pass as a supplier and it keeps the spiral turning.
    (that does in no way mean I'm against 64bit processing where it's due)

  • Another how insidious Apple is...............the headphone jack.

    Really.

    BEATZ.. .........

    Now them with ROLI.

    I THINK APPLE WILL SOON MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO USE MIDI CONTROLLERS WITHOUT A NEW CONNECTION ADAPTER OR WIFI ONLY LIKE ROLI OR SOME OTHER COMPANY THEY BUY.

    Just a prediction.

    WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT AFTER BUYING BEATS THEY WOULD KILL HEADPHONE JACK AND SPECIALIZE IN WIFI HEADPHONES?

    TYRANTS WITH A SMILE.

  • @brambos I just read the article this morning and was gonna share it on the audiobus forums :) couldn't agree more. The unnecessary upgrade system creates a situation where the software and OS never stabilize into something polished either. It's like as soon as everything is ironed out new ios version (with dumb features) that breaks all the essential stability of the system. Agggh! Wish there was something we could do

  • edited September 2017

    But no one is really forced to buy new stuff and upgrade their OS. Or?
    The question is if we want to buy new hardware with more demanding software which results in about just the same performance for some new shiny tools.
    Often yes but when i revisit some "old" software i wonder why i can't stop the G.A.S. :#
    I mean some triple A games need years of development and i think it's the same with a DAW. So we get never really optimized software again

  • It's so frustrating from a musician (and I'm sure, developer) standpoint. Constant maintainence just to to keep your app from crashing. Also eventually ios does force you to upgrade. I think you can only put that off for so long. Guess people must need better animated emojis or something, so Sorry your apps got trashed in the process

  • And again i think because of this a pro app store is more needed than ever. Where huge and complex apps have years to evolve etc.
    But the app store and the iOS devices are gold for Apple. It won't change.
    Maybe with iPads since they going more into a category like notebooks where people use them for many years before replacing them.

  • @JRSIV said:

    @Strizbiz said:
    Im REALLY apprehensive about updating my Ipad Air 2 to IOS11 when it comes out, I tried keeping up with the latest IOS with my Ipad 2 and that things runs sooooooooo slow compared to when I first got it. It feels like IOS's are designed to make you older devices worse so you feel like you need to get a newer one. My Ipad Air 2 runs fine now, but Im weary of IOS11 slowing it down.

    Absolutely @Strizbiz I'm a big believer that a device is designed for, and runs best on, the OS era it was developed and released on. Whether that's engineered obsolescence or just the march of technology is a fine line. I do think there comes a time to upgrade and move on...I don't expect my first PC I ever got in 1995, an eMachines 75mHz CPU with 1GB hard drive, to run ProTools 12 flawlessly. But when a devices specs are still in the ballpark of the new cut, or just a generation or two behind, it should not become a paperweight with an OS update.

    The thing is people want the new features a new OS brings. Since I got my Air 2 in Feb. of 2015 I haven't wanted a feature more than the new iOS 11 Files system. But when I tried to hold my breath and stay on iOS 8 or 9 one of my favorite apps would either update to iOS 10 only or get features you'd really want requiring an OS update to get them.

    It's one of those grin and bear it situations where you either eat it and upgrade/buy the new hardware, etc. or you try to make due with what was working fine yesterday, today, and just attempt to overcome the crippling anxiety that yes, there is something BETTER & FASTER than what you're "stuck with"! :sweat:

    At the moment the only things in IOS11 Id upgrade for are the file system and being able to send audio and midi back and forth via light to my MacBook Pro, everything else I can do without.

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