Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
New Audiobus
I know that we're still in the early days' of iOS7, but I'm going to ask anyway. Any eta on when Audiobus 2.0 will be here? Again, I understand that any updates to Audiobus require tectonic-plate-level coordination, but still...I'm curious. Yeah...I'm *that guy.
Comments
Last I heard from Sebastian, they were still working on one of the three main things that were going into the next version of Audiobus, and they weren't going to announce what that 3rd thing was until they knew that it was going to work. So, my guess is that they are still heavily into development on that third thing, since they haven't told us what it is yet. :-) I'm still hoping for Midi integration. ;-)
This question makes me wonder about the bigger questions:
How is Audiobus doing? Is it providing a sustainable living for our favorite independent iOS devs? Are they happy with how the past 10 months have gone? Confident they'll be able to keep at it for another year?
(I'm not asking... That would be a lot to ask. I'm just stating that I wonder about these things as a user who really appreciates the value of the app and the forum here).
And knowing these guys, they probably won't say too much, but will eventually release a remarkable 2.0 product ... whenever it's ready. :-). Can't wait.
@Audiojunkie yes, I saw that same thread. A real tease. I don't really expect them to spill the beans before it's ready, but it *would be kinda cool to hear a date associated with it so I can work myself up into a frenzy of excitement about it. That's half the fun, right? I don't even need something accurate. Just "before November" would send me into fits.
You bring up an interesting point @Hmtx, and maybe you didn't even mean to. I feel the same way, and I don't think we're alone. I want the Audiobus guys (and Rim at WML and Rhism and Sonarsaurus and Intua and...and...and all of these guys) to be profitable at what they do. Maybe they do actually go the Intua route and release a whole new 2.0 app. Would that drive anyone away? Certainly not me.
It wouldn't drive me away either. I want them to succeed, so that we can continue to have the support we need on the iOS platform. :-)
I certainly don't mind having to pay a bit extra for major app updates/ versions.
I don't know how the AB guys are doing and how much they're making or what they're planning etc but I have 6 mins to kill so why not speculate
The technical piece of AB is now going to be a commodity. Any app can stream audio to other apps, no AB required. E.g. AudioShare is now going to become an IAA host. AB as it exists today will definitely drop in revenue as a result. So my guess is that the AB guys will capitalize on the unique things they do have that IAA doesn't offer. Notably:
1) IAA doesn't have the mini-panel, which I think we all find extremely useful in our workflow. It does allow apps to remote-control others but in a limited way - I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) nodes can control other nodes, which is something I do a lot in the AB panel today.
2) IAA-enabled apps don't have the network of developers that AB has. So any new IAA-related features an app wants, they have to wait for Apple to enable in the platform. Which takes a while. On the other hand, AB can release a new SDK with new feature options (e.g. the animated triggers they recently added) and it'll reach a huge set of developers who can avail of that right away. We all know of many things we'd like to have in our IAA/AB workflows such as saving / loading preset routes, and ideally even recalling patches in the apps within a preset route. I suspect AB will be able to add this stuff way faster than IAA.
3) This community. It's mind-boggling to me that of the four main hubs of iOS music app social discourse, one belongs to an app (the other three I know of are discchord, the twittersphere and a particular FB group - all app-agnostic). I don't know how exactly the AB team could leverage this forum as functional enhancements to the AB app, but I'm pretty sure there would be ways to do so (e.g. sharing presets / routes with each other) and this is something no other IAA app can really do to the same scale IMO.
Anyways my 6 mins are up, so there you go, food for thought
I agree with you @Rhism. To add to the list IAA doesn't have a option to set the buffer size, which can be very useful.
My money remains on 2).
@rhism, didn't realize how much I missed you.
And a much larger base of supported apps....for now, at least.
That preset sharing part of JamUp is one of my favorite things about the app. That could certainly enhance the Audiobus experience if that is, in fact, a route they ever go. Cool stuff to think about.
Another thing that IAA hasn't: support for iOS 5 and 6. There's still a lot of older devices out there, which are fully functional and pretty high tech when you think about it.
Regarding buffer size, I think with IAA it's up to the host to determine the buffersize, so a host could very well offer such a user option.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that any Audiobus updates will continue to support earlier iOS versions.
@PaulB I wonder if that's more justification for a second app. Didn't really think about that honestly.
I realise I'll probably have to freeze all music app updates at some point, perhaps soon.
Don't forget that it's now possible to download the "last compatible version" of an app for your version of iOS (although I'm not sure if this needs to be specifically enabled by the developer)
@boone51:
I don't know if we're calling it Audiobus 2.0 but I guess we might as well. I think it's going to be a few weeks and then it'll be out.
@Hmtx:
Audiobus is profitable but as with any app that isn't fuelled by virtual currencies and/or social media growth powered by facebook/twitter sales have found a plateau. If we want to change anything about this we're going to have to find new ways to monetize our existing user base (give you guys something that you want to actually pay money for because it's awesome) or find a way to reach users from different market segments. Both of which we are going to tackle with the next two iterations of Audiobus.
@Hmtx, @Audiojunkie, @Nu2moro:
It's actually pretty encouraging that some of you think about what it takes to keep something like Audiobus running and leave us some room to invest in additional development power and maybe other cool things that might benefit the community.
To pull this off we definitely need to be understood by users.
@Rhism:
1) yep
2) ....kiiinda... The problem with competing with Apple on new features is that Apple can just look at what we're doing, then take the best part of it and then implement it directly in the OS... or at least they can try to do it.
On the other hand Apple can only release technologies. We can actually build products. I think this is one criticism that I have about IAA - there's nobody at Apple who promotes it to the users, no community, nobody who communicates Apple's vision for it.
We'll see what we can do about this.
3) Yep, this community is awesome. We're definitely seeing it as something that's very valuable. We haven't even tried to figure out a way to make it a part of our products that actually generates some revenue in a way that isn't annoying to our users (because that would be the only way we'd do it). It would have to be something that totally fits in with the general vibe and maybe even the workflow of Audiobus.
The creative freedom and flexibility that Audiobus brings to the IOS music making experience never ceases to amaze me.I would gladly pay for the next update to support these great devs!
This is such an interesting thread. Many of you know that I have a background in economy but to be honest some of the things that I've learned during my university days are hard to apply to this weird new age with stuff like App Stores and other platforms that make it easier to deliver products in ways that were previously unthinkable.
One of the big problems that every app developer has is how to price their apps and how to charge for new features. Yet, asking users directly what they'd like to pay for something for some reason is taboo. So we just try to guess and we're trying to use the mechanics of these new platforms to fix some of their shortcomings. I can't help but think that this is shortsighted.
From here on, please brace yourselves for this is going to become a rant:
We can't charge for upgrades, so we try to package features in in-app purchases to make sure we can recuperate on our development efforts.
We can't charge on a monthly basis because that's - so far - not acceptable for users (an app is seen as a one-time investment). But at the same time it is expected of developers to continue to update and provide bug fixes indefinitely.
Apps aren't ever 'finished', at least from a users' point of view. Therefore when a developer decides to switch to a new project and that an older app is done, the app in question doesn't get the status of being finished, it gets the status of 'abandoned'.
Think about it - you wouldn't consider a book abandoned just because it hasn't been changed in the last 50 years. An app usually takes just as much time to write as a book - sometimes significantly more. Yet it can never just be 'done'.
Then there's Apple's role in all of this: They're constantly pushing iOS to be better, faster, stronger. And they're throwing away older features and deprecating parts of the operating system while introducing new ones. It's nice to see that they now let users download older versions of their apps BUT the control devs have over them is miniscule.
There currently is no way to actually stop an app from being sold on the newest version of iOS.
Apple basically forces hundreds of thousands of developers to constantly update their apps whenever they're introducing a new version of the OS.
If not, they're going to get negative ratings.
I could go on about it but I think this post has gotten long enough already.
To summarise:
I really like this community and I can't help but feel that we should use more of it's input during the design and development of our next features and apps. Also, being an app developer is hard.
The reason I don't have much sympathy for the dev side of things is that the way apple designed its ecosystem on iOS was so that the users are in the drivers seat for once in their commercial computing lives. This is the first time I'm aware of that users have had as much power and control on a commercial platform. I honestly don't care to see that go away. It's as if we finally have evolved out of the slimebag soup that most other models in the Adobe/Microsoft "screw the user" model have been wallowing in for decades.
With all due respect: I don't see how users have more control. If anything they have less control over the platform or the device they're using (as compared to Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android). They just get vastly better access to applications - but of course only the ones approved by Apple.
Of all the nice things that the App Store offers, putting users in the drivers seat is not on the list.
@Sebastian. I'll make this very short, and to the point. You guys have more than paid your dues. I for one, have no hesitations about paying for new features in AB. AB and it's Devs have their own identity and reputation, which has gained the trust of this community.
So a marketplace of high quality apps affordable to the majority of device owners has not put users in control?
As these users move from desktops directly to these devices, making this model which benefits them even more powerful commercially, and devs will have no choice but to move their quality apps to these devices to make a living at all, and will have to alter their approach to sales to be compatible with this model, that doesn't benefit users?
I have more access to high quality apps, both in financial and convenience senses, than I have ever had on any other platform.
The only users who don't see this as beneficial are devs themselves, as they clearly recognize the inevitability of this change and that the power dynamic has shifted to a much more equal footing.
I guess I should also mention that as someone who ran Ubuntu as my main OS for 5 years, I have also experienced complete user "freedom". After owning my 4th Gen ipad for almost a year I can clearly tell everyone that I feel like I've got 20 years of quality computing using the ipad for a single year, in comparison to maybe the year of quality computing I got out of 5 years of Linux.
@Sebastian: I also think some Inn-App-Purchases would be great. Great work should be paid, if you get well paid you are able to make more great things.... and we are all happy
Another thing... I ask this every few month and now it's the time to ask again. Is there a chance that we can see some of your works on other devices mobile OS (Android, windows phone8....) or is there still no way to see such things because of latency, market, fragmentation etc... However i wish you guys much success with your future plans!
@AQ808:
I think my definition of control differs from yours. Of course users have easier access to applications than before. They can buy more. But users don't have more control over the device that is running these apps. And users don't have more control over the apps that are running than before.
I agree that users have more perceived choice.
@Sebastian Agreed that Apple can always add the best AB SDK features into its next iOS, but depending on your timing you'd always get up to a year headstart on that, and that lead time is pretty monetizable. But agreed that the fact that AB makes products is perhaps the biggest differentiator. I do think that leveraging the community to provide unmonetized 'gravy' to the AB user might be a better path rather than direct monetization of the community somehow ('cos of the concerns you already cited).
@AQ808 Ironically, low app prices on the App Store are a result of Apple giving developers, not users, more control than on past platforms. Anyone can be a dev, make and release an app, choose their own pricing, and change that price at any time they want. These things were not true on past platforms (Windows, Xbox/PlayStation, etc). The increased supply of developers increases the supply of apps, thus reducing their prices. The all-digital marketplace allows devs to experiment with prices every day. And the lack of artificial price controls (e.g. on Xbox/PS3, all new retail games must be sold for $60) allows that natural supply-demand mechanic to take place. User control has nothing to do with this, other than the fact that users choose which apps they buy (but that has always been the case).
That said, the App Store does give users unprecedented power via ratings and reviews. The fact that they're built into the App Store means you don't have to go elsewhere to figure out how good something is (though it still helps for the more expensive apps) - the ratings are always in front of you at the point of purchase.
Personally, I think giving users more control (via information, via ratings and reviews) goes hand in hand with giving devs a healthy marketplace in which to sell their wares. More user information means more user confidence to buy more apps at higher prices. Music creation apps in particular have a strong community outside the app store, which further increases information sharing and confidence and allows apps to sustain even higher price points.
I do think that devs adding new stuff to their apps need a reasonable way to monetize it and the two main paths are IAP or new app. The music creation community has to date been mostly anti-IAP (though that's slowly changing), partly because of the ways in which IAPs can and do get abused (e.g. apps that are mostly unusable without IAPs), partly because the IAP purchase / ownership experience is far inferior to the iOS new app purchase / ownership experience (no new icon, no new app name, no new launch screen, IAPs don't have ratings / reviews, no way for other apps to detect which IAPs you have installed, etc). Releasing a new app has the minor problem of what to do with the old app, but in general seems to be the far more successful route for most cases. In my case I think the IAP model is the right fit for guitarism because it appeals to a much wider audience, but (1) I may be totally wrong, and (2) I suspect this is an exception.
If there was one thing I'd want Apple to add to the App Store, it would not be upgrade pricing (which is what most people seem to yearn for) - it would be treatment of IAPs as equal to new apps (ratings / reviews, ability to change the app icon / name with user consent, etc).
What bothers me with the music apps standard price tags is that it's less than the price of a 3 meters low cost guitar jack.
Virtual synths for example. For a few bucks you get an app that used to cost hundreds as a vst, plus you get touch sensitive display, something you only dreamt about 10 years ago.
I think audiobus price tag is ridiculously low compared to what it enables its users to do.
I don't know if in app purchases is the solution, this system is a workaround to compensate mandatory apps low cost that is both a consequence of apple policies and app store users behaviour (such as rants when a dev comes out with a V2 asking for a huge $0.99 again).
I would totally be willing to pay a monthly fee (for the months when I actually use audiobus). Or maybe a pro version with midi.
Sebastian, that is true. Users have less direct low level control of their device, but more direct control of the marketplace for the device, which actually gives them more direct control of what they can have on their device.
What is the value of low level "control" of a device to anyone who isn't a dev? Even if a person is a kinda ok coder, just how good can they personally be compared to what will be created by professional devs out of the market pressure of the appstore model?
I've been in linuxland as a non-coder user. I know what it is like to sit around starving waiting for crumbs to fall into my hands from a compassionate stranger. Once in a blue moon I actually received some tasty crumbs, most of the time it tasted like sawdust!
I had complete control of my device but ultimately had nothing of value in comparison to commercial alternatives.
But before that, in the Windows world, I also had "control" of my device, but it was obvious that I had no control over or right to my software. If I dared to actually use the software I just purchased, I had to sign over all perceivable rights in a EULA which defined me as the equivalent of a piece of dirt, and the license only applied to a single "seat", and all other layers of BS on top of that. The software companies would constantly try to lock us into their format so we would be forced to purchase their product in order to have access to our own data once they made sure the software had a planned obsolescence poison pill, and then would try to force us into subscription pricing to attempt to charge us monthly for the privilege of recovery.
Those were the glory days of "perceived user control" in my eyes.
Then I get to the appstore, with a clear rating system for smashing abusive devs, and an apple agreement that I can have multiple copies of an app on multiple devices I control (5 devices on OSX, 10 on iOS, I believe), Prices are cheaper and piracy is neutralized because users actually get a fair shake instead of always facing a "shakedown". Consequently, devs are more engaged and attentive and more people than ever have access and power over the software which ends up on their device, instead of the old "take this or eat dirt" approach.
We aren't going to start looking back now.
@Julieno
Holy... Do you know what we could do with a model of recurring monthly sales? That would pretty much solve all problems current developers of audio apps are facing. And it'd basically be a guarantee for constant updates, new features and... and... and...
I want to believe.
Double-post