Dhalang Update (3.5)

Hypertonal

Some news for the microtonal-algorithmic vanguard.

Updates just out for both full (mac & iOS) versions and both lite (demo) versions updated to full version state.

New:

• Physical synth has some new features; Jitters (definable random change) for envelope attack and release to cause some realism for many different type of acoustic sounds. For me, a more realistic guitar strumming and tremolo. Physical synth volume ranges also made larger.
• Sampler receives parameter control from modulation freq/amount/delay to granulizer.

Fixes:

• Fixes to MIDI input; larger range for MIDI transposition, and changing that while playing won't cause stuck notes anymore.
• State machines route navigation (clicking of route position) now really sets timing right to that state's beginning, like rewinding machines on full stop.
• UI fixes here and there.

Also the whole sound quality is slightly improved with few changes on core DSP routines.
Windows version now fully working and ready for Steam release, out in 1-2 months. Mac version also will be re-released on Steam.

skiphunt

@Hypertonal love it. I can hear the sound engine improvement. Less metallic edge and a bit more complex. Haven’t played with all the new features, but I’m really loving the way the physical synth is sounding now.

Are there new controls in the touch play screen too? I might’ve just missed them before. Significantly more useful now.

Quick question, I can’t recall how automation was written for the piano roll and can’t find it in the manual. Can you, or anyone else using Dhalang refresh my memory please?

Strizbiz

@skiphunt said:
@Hypertonal love it. I can hear the sound engine improvement. Less metallic edge and a bit more complex. Haven’t played with all the new features, but I’m really loving the way the physical synth is sounding now.

Are there new controls in the touch play screen too? I might’ve just missed them before. Significantly more useful now.

Quick question, I can’t recall how automation was written for the piano roll and can’t find it in the manual. Can you, or anyone else using Dhalang refresh my memory please?

lol, you just kinda reaffirmed my thoughts on this app, looks like a lot of features and has a lot going on with it, but a little too much going on for me right now. I dont mind complex apps but I downloaded the free demo and after 10 mins I realized Im going to have to watch a good amount of video tutorials to digest it and be productive, and I already have a FUULLLLLL plate as far as IOS music apps go, lol. Maybe Ill revisit this app sometime in the future?

skiphunt

@Strizbiz said:

@skiphunt said:
@Hypertonal love it. I can hear the sound engine improvement. Less metallic edge and a bit more complex. Haven’t played with all the new features, but I’m really loving the way the physical synth is sounding now.

Are there new controls in the touch play screen too? I might’ve just missed them before. Significantly more useful now.

Quick question, I can’t recall how automation was written for the piano roll and can’t find it in the manual. Can you, or anyone else using Dhalang refresh my memory please?

lol, you just kinda reaffirmed my thoughts on this app, looks like a lot of features and has a lot going on with it, but a little too much going on for me right now. I dont mind complex apps but I downloaded the free demo and after 10 mins I realized Im going to have to watch a good amount of video tutorials to digest it and be productive, and I already have a FUULLLLLL plate as far as IOS music apps go, lol. Maybe Ill revisit this app sometime in the future?

I just found it. It’s on its own screen called “Control”. I was looking for it within the piano roll page, but the automation can be written for all sections and why it has its own dedicated section. You just choose your target sequence for your automation from there.

It’s a VERY complex and impressive app. It’s not for the push-button crowd for sure. But with a little time investment in a few videos, users will be greatly rewarded.

I almost had your attitude after I purchased Quantum this last weekend. Fortunately, I put in a little time and discovered an amazing sequencer that does what no other sequencer can do.

Dhalang MG is a complex program for sure, but if you put in a little time, it too is in a class all by itself. Also, it’s not as intimidating as it looks. Once you get the general logic and syntax, it starts coming together quickly.

lnikj

Am I right in believing that it is not AB3? IAA?

Hypertonal

@lnikj said:
Am I right in believing that it is not AB3? IAA?

AB2 and IAA. both tested to work.

lnikj

IAA is good. I can always reinstall AB2.

Watching some videos to see if I can handle the depth of what looks like a fascinating app.

Hypertonal

Maybe here's now some new people to Dhalang, so I'm saying little more what it is and what it's not:

• It's not a beginner software for those wanting to immediately get nice preset music out of it, with little or no work.
• It's not trying to be a clone of traditional similar software like FLStudio, Ableton, etc.
• It does not require deep understanding of classical music theory, in fact it's algorithmic sequencer parts introduce complete new ways to perceiving musical progression/sequence. Ways that are more 'natural' to actual instrument playing (vector), how musical mind/memory works in stochastic abstraction (matrix), and whatever the particle things is..
• It needs some time and patience but when mastered, is very flexible tool/station to create easily almost any music one can imagine.
• The Internal synthesizers, mixing and effects can be little limiting depending on work-flow, but I have tried to re-create typical late 80's MIDI/Audio interactive studio mixing environment where work is based on live performance (of both players and sound engineers) rather than the modern close surgical editing of time arrangement.
• With multi-output mode all instruments can be routed to wherever wanted.

One way to show it's capabilities is some cross-genre music i've made with it:
https://zadarpadov.bandcamp.com/ I use ONLY Dhalang with just some mastering and audio editing software.
Naturally all this music sounds like my music, and will give somewhat a limited view of the software's
sound possibilities. I like noisy and fast progressive music. like Magma, 80's Thrash metal, 70's Fusion Jazz, Psychobilly..

gkillmaster

what have you all found is the best way to learn this? With the videos on the Dhalang website?

skiphunt

@gkillmaster said:
what have you all found is the best way to learn this? With the videos on the Dhalang website?

It was time-consuming, but what I had to do was watch all of the videos on his site first. I'd pause them and duplicate what he's doing in the app. I need to actually follow along for it to sink in usually.

(Also, watch the shorter Pantsofdeath demo first before watching the ones on the Hypertonal site. It's a good primer before diving in)

Then, I experimented with the app. Messing around, exploring, etc. I tried out all of the sections, and made little mental notes of what I didn't understand.

After that, I watched ALL of the videos again... only this time I didn't follow along so I could give 100% attention to what I was seeing on screen since I already was pretty familiar with the app by that point.

Hypertonal

@skiphunt said:

@gkillmaster said:
what have you all found is the best way to learn this? With the videos on the Dhalang website?

It was time-consuming, but what I had to do was watch all of the videos on his site first. I'd pause them and duplicate what he's doing in the app. I need to actually follow along for it to sink in usually.

(Also, watch the shorter Pantsofdeath demo first before watching the ones on the Hypertonal site. It's a good primer before diving in)

Then, I experimented with the app. Messing around, exploring, etc. I tried out all of the sections, and made little mental notes of what I didn't understand.

After that, I watched ALL of the videos again... only this time I didn't follow along so I could give 100% attention to what I was seeing on screen since I already was pretty familiar with the app by that point.

Now there is also the internal manual in the software with texts composed of posts from this forum, explaining things with examples that were most helpful.
Note that this software was initially only a tool for myself and couple of friends, and only afterwards it became a public thing; as it's more interesting to hear how other people find ways to use it, than just keeping it within a small inside group with certain use patterns. The design philosophy is unique features over familiarity.

Jumpercollins

The lite version now gets full functionality of the app itself which is cool.

skiphunt

@Hypertonal said:
One way to show it's capabilities is some cross-genre music i've made with it:
https://zadarpadov.bandcamp.com/ I use ONLY Dhalang with just some mastering and audio editing software.
Naturally all this music sounds like my music, and will give somewhat a limited view of the software's
sound possibilities. I like noisy and fast progressive music. like Magma, 80's Thrash metal, 70's Fusion Jazz, Psychobilly..

Ok, I checked out the 6 albums at this bandcamp link. First off, you are a talented musician and composer!

Secondly, you said these were ALL made with Dhalang MG? All 6 of these? Are there any imported sample performances? Many of the parts sound like traditional live instruments. Especially some fo the bass lines and drums. There's a trumpet in one of them that sounds fairly authentic too.

So, you ONLY used Dhalang on all 6 of these albums? Seriously? That's freakin' impressive.

Hypertonal

@Jumpercollins said:
The lite version now gets full functionality of the app itself which is cool.

All functionality but the i/o limitations just like before. Lite cannot save/load projects files, samples, render output or use midi/audiobus/iaa/link connections.. or at least it shouldn't..

@skiphunt said:

@Hypertonal said:
One way to show it's capabilities is some cross-genre music i've made with it:
https://zadarpadov.bandcamp.com/ I use ONLY Dhalang with just some mastering and audio editing software.
Naturally all this music sounds like my music, and will give somewhat a limited view of the software's
sound possibilities. I like noisy and fast progressive music. like Magma, 80's Thrash metal, 70's Fusion Jazz, Psychobilly..

Ok, I checked out the 6 albums at this bandcamp link. First off, you are a talented musician and composer!

Secondly, you said these were ALL made with Dhalang MG? All 6 of these? Are there any imported sample performances? Many of the parts sound like traditional live instruments. Especially some fo the bass lines and drums. There's a trumpet in one of them that sounds fairly authentic too.

So, you ONLY used Dhalang on all 6 of these albums? Seriously? That's freakin' impressive.

Well, yeah, acoustic (single-shot) samples too played with Dhalang samplers, stuff that is not really possible to model practically with physical synths (yet!). But all electronic guitars, basses, pianos and synths are directly from Dhalang generators. No sample loops or grooves at all.

skiphunt

@Hypertonal said:

@Jumpercollins said:
The lite version now gets full functionality of the app itself which is cool.

All functionality but the i/o limitations just like before. Lite cannot save/load projects files, samples, render output or use midi/audiobus/iaa/link connections.. or at least it shouldn't..

@skiphunt said:

@Hypertonal said:
One way to show it's capabilities is some cross-genre music i've made with it:
https://zadarpadov.bandcamp.com/ I use ONLY Dhalang with just some mastering and audio editing software.
Naturally all this music sounds like my music, and will give somewhat a limited view of the software's
sound possibilities. I like noisy and fast progressive music. like Magma, 80's Thrash metal, 70's Fusion Jazz, Psychobilly..

Ok, I checked out the 6 albums at this bandcamp link. First off, you are a talented musician and composer!

Secondly, you said these were ALL made with Dhalang MG? All 6 of these? Are there any imported sample performances? Many of the parts sound like traditional live instruments. Especially some fo the bass lines and drums. There's a trumpet in one of them that sounds fairly authentic too.

So, you ONLY used Dhalang on all 6 of these albums? Seriously? That's freakin' impressive.

Well, yeah, acoustic (single-shot) samples too played with Dhalang samplers, stuff that is not really possible to model practically with physical synths (yet!). But all electronic guitars, basses, pianos and synths are directly from Dhalang generators. No sample loops or grooves at all.

Incredible! I know Dhalang MG better than the average user I think, so I'm pretty familiar with the basic synthesis at this point. While I was listening to parts of all 6 albums, I could've sworn many of those sounds had to be created traditionally. Even the reverb on some of the tracks sound like an actual live performance to me.

A couple questions: Could you create a handful of preset instruments that covered the basics for new users getting started? I think when you first start learning the app it'd be cool to have some instrument presets to practice with.

Also, what is the difference in the full version versus the LITE version? You say the LITE version has full functionality. So what's the difference?

Hypertonal

Incredible! I know Dhalang MG better than the average user I think, so I'm pretty familiar with the basic synthesis at this point. While I was listening to parts of all 6 albums, I could've sworn many of those sounds had to be created traditionally. Even the reverb on some of the tracks sound like an actual live performance to me.

I think this is because when there are limitations to the amount of tracks, sounds, effects, channels.. etc it forces to use them lot more creatively than with just adding N amount of effects top another and thus creating a mess of something that is not in control. A lot of great music from the 70's, 80's was mixed and produced with very primitive equipment, only couple effect units in send channels, and sound engineers had to use them more creatively, and that good mix is all about using send channels/effects wisely by combining instrument groups into them and leaving channel insert effect almost completely off. Also using EQs in about everything is important.
But mixing is also an art from learned by doing and most of all listening to lots of music with an analytical ear.

A couple questions: Could you create a handful of preset instruments that covered the basics for new users getting started? I think when you first start learning the app it'd be cool to have some instrument presets to practice with.

I could create a new factory preset set, but loading it would overwrite all custom sounds the users now have.

Also, what is the difference in the full version versus the LITE version? You say the LITE version has full functionality. So what's the difference?

There no differences at core, but just no ability to save/load anything or use any other connections than midi input.

gkillmaster

@skiphunt said:

@gkillmaster said:
what have you all found is the best way to learn this? With the videos on the Dhalang website?

It was time-consuming, but what I had to do was watch all of the videos on his site first. I'd pause them and duplicate what he's doing in the app. I need to actually follow along for it to sink in usually.

(Also, watch the shorter Pantsofdeath demo first before watching the ones on the Hypertonal site. It's a good primer before diving in)

Then, I experimented with the app. Messing around, exploring, etc. I tried out all of the sections, and made little mental notes of what I didn't understand.

After that, I watched ALL of the videos again... only this time I didn't follow along so I could give 100% attention to what I was seeing on screen since I already was pretty familiar with the app by that point.

thanks! sounds like a good approach