A Reminder that WE ARE MUSICIANS

Milestone_Music

If we can have a guy hold a concert of silence and get paid for it as Music, then I think the term musician is very broad

Milestone_Music

[Deleted User]

@ipadthai said:
I can turn on the radio. Does that put me in the league as people who can play the violin? Of course not.

>

There is a League of Violin players?

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
Do you necessarily have to have talent, or even any skill to be a musician? Is making a noise with something, and recording it and presenting it as a musical piece enough? After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

I listen to a lot of weird, noise type stuff - and I get as much enjoyment from that as I do listening to The Beatles. In 500 years from now when they uncover the tapes, will the noise makers be hailed as the true musicians and bands like The Beatles consigned as amusing pub band novelties? Who are we to judge from our very limited viewpoints?

Does a visual artist need to have any talent or skill whatsoever? A brief hike around the Tate will confirm they don't. A thing is considered 'art', because it's created by an 'artist'. And ouroboros - like they're deemed an 'artist' because they make 'art'.

Maybe the same considerations should be applied to music: I'm a 'musician' because I create 'music', and it's deemed 'music' as it's been created by a 'musician'.

Or some shit like that.

People remember this interview from a “be water, my friend” which is weird since that part is the only where Bruce was acting as himself acting (on demand by interviewer). The full interview has a lot of philosophic discuss about Martial, Art and self expression. Worth to see it IMHO. Change the Martial context into Music or whatever to check why JKD was more than a name, less than a name, just a name.

[Deleted User]

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

BiancaNeve

@Arpseechord said:

@u0421793 said:

Nice drawing

A 40 year old one!

richardyot

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

And even funnier, they announced Rachel Whiteread as the winner of their prize for the worst art ever the day before the results of the Turner Prize were announced (which she also won). She initially refused to collect the £50k prize from the K Foundation, until they threatened to destroy the money.

A lot of people got very angry at them for burning that million quid, arguing they should have given to charity etc, and completely missing the point they were making. If contemporary art is just a damp reheating of Marcel Duchamp's readymades played on repeat, the KLF were the real heirs of Dadaism. Burning the money felt like a meaningful gesture, that cost them dearly (they're not rich), unlike the banality of much contemporary art.

JeffChasteen

I'm partial to, and agree with, an old Todd Rundgren quote from years ago. This is a paraphrase: "Well, I can play several instruments, but I'm not really good enough at any of them to be hired to gig on any one of them"

AudioGus

@MonzoPro said:
Do you necessarily have to have talent, or even any skill to be a musician? Is making a noise with something, and recording it and presenting it as a musical piece enough? After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

I listen to a lot of weird, noise type stuff - and I get as much enjoyment from that as I do listening to The Beatles. In 500 years from now when they uncover the tapes, will the noise makers be hailed as the true musicians and bands like The Beatles consigned as amusing pub band novelties? Who are we to judge from our very limited viewpoints?

Does a visual artist need to have any talent or skill whatsoever? A brief hike around the Tate will confirm they don't. A thing is considered 'art', because it's created by an 'artist'. And ouroboros - like they're deemed an 'artist' because they make 'art'.

Maybe the same considerations should be applied to music: I'm a 'musician' because I create 'music', and it's deemed 'music' as it's been created by a 'musician'.

Or some shit like that.

I suspect all of this is likely just a pesky word problem.

AudioGus

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

Bottom line: human culture sucks.

[Deleted User]

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

And even funnier, they announced Rachel Whiteread as the winner of their prize for the worst art ever the day before the results of the Turner Prize were announced (which she also won). She initially refused to collect the £50k prize from the K Foundation, until they threatened to destroy the money.

A lot of people got very angry at them for burning that million quid, arguing they should have given to charity etc, and completely missing the point they were making. If contemporary art is just a damp reheating of Marcel Duchamp's readymades played on repeat, the KLF were the real heirs of Dadaism. Burning the money felt like a meaningful gesture, that cost them dearly (they're not rich), unlike the banality of much contemporary art.

And on a more practical note - burning a million quid brought them far more publicity and notoriety, than if they’d spent ten times that amount with a swanky PR agency.

richardyot

@MonzoPro said:

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

And even funnier, they announced Rachel Whiteread as the winner of their prize for the worst art ever the day before the results of the Turner Prize were announced (which she also won). She initially refused to collect the £50k prize from the K Foundation, until they threatened to destroy the money.

A lot of people got very angry at them for burning that million quid, arguing they should have given to charity etc, and completely missing the point they were making. If contemporary art is just a damp reheating of Marcel Duchamp's readymades played on repeat, the KLF were the real heirs of Dadaism. Burning the money felt like a meaningful gesture, that cost them dearly (they're not rich), unlike the banality of much contemporary art.

And on a more practical note - burning a million quid brought them far more publicity and notoriety, than if they’d spent ten times that amount with a swanky PR agency.

But of course by then they had stopped releasing records, and deleted their back catalogue - so the publicity didn't help with their record sales

AudioGus

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

And even funnier, they announced Rachel Whiteread as the winner of their prize for the worst art ever the day before the results of the Turner Prize were announced (which she also won). She initially refused to collect the £50k prize from the K Foundation, until they threatened to destroy the money.

A lot of people got very angry at them for burning that million quid, arguing they should have given to charity etc, and completely missing the point they were making. If contemporary art is just a damp reheating of Marcel Duchamp's readymades played on repeat, the KLF were the real heirs of Dadaism. Burning the money felt like a meaningful gesture, that cost them dearly (they're not rich), unlike the banality of much contemporary art.

And on a more practical note - burning a million quid brought them far more publicity and notoriety, than if they’d spent ten times that amount with a swanky PR agency.

But of course by then they had stopped releasing records, and deleted their back catalogue - so the publicity didn't help with their record sales

But those three letters will live on in infamy.

gusgranite

@rickwaugh said:
Any nitwit can string together some loops in iOS and call it music. And much of the very popular stuff is incredibly repetitious, lacking in any chord changes whatsoever, or much of a melody. But if it's good enough to make a listener feel something, it's music. IMNSHO.

I have invested good time and money to try and attain this level of musicianship!

[Deleted User]

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@richardyot said:

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
After all, who is to judge what is, and isn't music?

That is the million dollar question, sometimes literally.

What is music and who gets to make it in the modern age, by which I mean since individuals didn’t need to belong to an orchestra or be privately sponsored, is much more open than the art world.

Art is rigidly controlled by an elite, who get to decide who is an who isn’t an artist. Fuckers, the lot of them. This was illustrated by KLF burning a million quid, ‘cause the art establishment decided their ‘exhibition piece’ of £500,000 nailed to a canvas could not be displayed as art. Yet, if Tracey Emin had done the same thing, the same bunch would almost certainly have declared it a work of genius!

The real work of genius was the £50k prize they setup for the worst piece of art, awarded to the same person who won the best prize.

Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

And even funnier, they announced Rachel Whiteread as the winner of their prize for the worst art ever the day before the results of the Turner Prize were announced (which she also won). She initially refused to collect the £50k prize from the K Foundation, until they threatened to destroy the money.

A lot of people got very angry at them for burning that million quid, arguing they should have given to charity etc, and completely missing the point they were making. If contemporary art is just a damp reheating of Marcel Duchamp's readymades played on repeat, the KLF were the real heirs of Dadaism. Burning the money felt like a meaningful gesture, that cost them dearly (they're not rich), unlike the banality of much contemporary art.

And on a more practical note - burning a million quid brought them far more publicity and notoriety, than if they’d spent ten times that amount with a swanky PR agency.

But of course by then they had stopped releasing records, and deleted their back catalogue - so the publicity didn't help with their record sales

Yeah I’d forgotten that bit...

They are very clever, I’ve got all Mr Drummonds books. 45 is one of my favourite books of all time. The ‘KLF chaos, magic and the band who burned a million pounds’ is a good read too.

I was involved in a bit of a weird ‘art/music thing’ side project when I was working in Bristol years ago. A girl I worked with said they were popping down to discuss a few projects with her, and were happy for me to pop along and join in. I didn’t believe her for one second, didn’t go, and laughed it off when she recounted the visit the next day. I wasn’t laughing when I read about the meeting they had with her in his book 45, many years later.

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

Any good?

I read KLF: Chaos Magic Music Money - JMR Higgs, and that was a seriously good work.

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
And on a more practical note - burning a million quid brought them far more publicity and notoriety, than if they’d spent ten times that amount with a swanky PR agency.

>

True, but they claim that was not why they did it. As they deleted their catalogue soon after, I tend to believe them.

FWIW, KLF said they burned the money because it was the only way to stop it going back to money. In other words perpetuating the system that had made them rich and famous, but which they had come to despise.

[Deleted User]

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

Any good?

I read KLF: Chaos Magic Music Money - JMR Higgs, and that was a seriously good work.

I’m two thirds of the way through.

It seems to be Bill Drummonds very loose reinterpretation of the history of the KLF (and everything else), as seen through the eyes of Robert (‘Antonia’) Wilson’s Illumininati trilogy, and hefty doses of industrial strength acid.

It’s probably the weirdest book I’ve ever read, and that’s saying something.

[Deleted User]

@BiancaNeve said:

@Arpseechord said:

@u0421793 said:

Nice drawing

A 40 year old one!

Old master drawing then

[Deleted User]

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
Funnily enough I’m reading their book ‘23’ at the moment.

Any good?

I read KLF: Chaos Magic Music Money - JMR Higgs, and that was a seriously good work.

Nearly finished 23, but I'm revisiting '..Chaos..' to help me out. I'm also going to re-read the Illuminati trilogy and 45, for about the 23rd time.

I think 'Discordian' would be a good way to describe 23,

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
I think 'Discordian' would be a good way to describe 23,

Would also be an instant buy AU, if someone invents the musical version.

It always amuses me how, in the current era, fiction has turned an ancient, obscure group of knowledge seekers, into what Bilderberg actually does!

[Deleted User]

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
I think 'Discordian' would be a good way to describe 23,

Would also be an instant buy AU, if someone invents the musical version.

It always amuses me how, in the current era, fiction has turned an ancient, obscure group of knowledge seekers, into what Bilderberg actually does!

Jon Ronson's 'Them: Adventures with Extremists' is good for that stuff. Love his books.

Matthew

My cat does fetch tho.

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
Jon Ronson's 'Them: Adventures with Extremists' is good for that stuff. Love his books.

Cheers, I’ll look that one up.

UkiahBlog

JeffChasteen

@MonzoPro said:

@Zen210507 said:

@MonzoPro said:
I think 'Discordian' would be a good way to describe 23,

Would also be an instant buy AU, if someone invents the musical version.

It always amuses me how, in the current era, fiction has turned an ancient, obscure group of knowledge seekers, into what Bilderberg actually does!

Jon Ronson's 'Them: Adventures with Extremists' is good for that stuff. Love his books.

That is an excellent read.