Odessa (LIVE - IT FINALLY HAPPENED!)

lukesleepwalker

@Artefact2001 said:

@brambos said:

@Artefact2001 said:
@brambos looks great! does the AUv3 MIDI output spec also allows MIDI CC automation of AUv3 parameters?

Sure, the AUv3 can receive (and send) MIDI CC and translate that internally to its AU Parameters. That was already possible - all my plugins already did that.

I guess I might be asking if your MIDI sequencers will allow 'drawing in' of CC data?

And recording of CC automation.

[Deleted User]

10000% agree.

@nonchai said:

@brambos said:

• transpose via MIDI notes
• multiple instances (that's kind of the point)
• obviously all the mutation/random stuff you already expected
• patterns selectable via MIDI

Dude - you're making dreams coming true here. I'm SUPER CHUFFED !

As to : - "transpose via MIDI notes" thats great. Can I suggest an addition to this functionality, commonly found in hardware keyboard arrangers? - namely 2/3-finger left-hand chord/scale type triggering.
What does this mean? Simple - If I want to play the pattern in A Major - In the lowest octave ( or a designated octave - or designated MIDI channel etc ) I play A and then a MAJOR 3rd above it. This instructs the arpeggiator to use the IONIAN mode in A - namely A Major. For A minor I play A and a minor third above it - © and the arpeggiator plays a Dorian mode ( the typical mode for minor ). For a dominant 7 ( often a Mixolydian mode ) I'd play A and above it - G ( the minor 7th interval in a dominant 7 chord ) - for augmented i'd play A and E# and so on. It might be worth googling and getting a copy of a PDF manual from their support page on their product - website of one of the common arrangers ( PSR/Korg PA series etc ) which will tell you the typical fingerings that such arrangers use.

Doing this would be MEGA for live performance.

Also - someone might have mentioned this - but to be able to queue up the NEXT root ( or chord ) to be played to have it play on the next 1st beat of the bar ( or Ableton-Link Quantum ) in Ableton fashion would be uber - cool.

And and and.... of course - in the future - being able to sequence chord changes like ChordFlow does - ACROSS INSTANCES OF THE SEQUENCER PLUGIN would be awesome.

Lastly - this all does clearly suggest that it might be wise for developers of such sequencers to liase and knock heads together in order to hash out a commonly agreed standard and "protocol" for sending root-chord-change instructions to whatever collection of arpeggiators or pattern sequencers happen to be running in a live-jam situation. On a more sophisticated note -there is also a need to be able to send chord-chances "up-front" to any app that is designed to do advanced MIDI-reharmonisation - because for musicality it is not enough to merely transform pattern notes on the fly - as they are about to be played. Why ? because for maximum harmonic musicality it is necessary to know the WHOLE pattern, or at least a whole BAR of a pattern in advance in order to best transpose the melodic arc in a musical manner. ( hope this makes sense - i wrote code to do this kind of transformation over a decade ago )
And then i'd actually suggest submitting this standard - and even shared middleware code - to Ableton - for them to simply incorporate into an Ableton-Link V2 spec!. I know they're interested in the idea since i discussed it with one of them on PM a while back.

Great time to be coming into iPad music !

RajahP

@brambos said:

@Samplemunch said:
@brambos sorry if you already anawered this, can these sequencers be triggered by a MIDI note, like the almighty Microtonic on desktop ?

They run in sync with the hosts timeline. Not triggered by MIDI, but you can select patterns using MIDI notes, which will then start and automatically play in sync with the host and all other instances of Odessa.

Follow actions can be set to jump through the 8 patterns if you like.

You can also use MIDI notes for transposing melodic patterns on the fly (+/- 1 octave).

Ableton Live ‘Version 2’.

Instead of ‘static clips’, we get ‘fluid step sequencers’ spitting out sweet accidentals, slight variations, or whatever...

Smile..

nonchai

@brambos said:

@nonchai said:
One more thing - of coure- and we've discussed it before i believe - Apple doesnt allow true AUv3 MIDI Effect plugins yet in iOS - or not at least officially in their OS.

Yes, these AUv3 MIDI plugins can receive and send MIDI so you could build any MIDI effect you like. No proprietary hacks necessary.

Are you saying you've managed to find a way of making and running AUv3 plugins that receive and send MIDI - and which can run inside the upcoming AUM which will support MIDI-out AUs ?
An AUv3 plugin that receives - processes and then sends out MIDI is what Apple and most others call a MIDI-effect. Although I guess if there is an optional synth-engine inside it then it could be classed as a synth.

Reason for asking is that I'm trying to build a pure MIDI-Effect AUv3 iOS plugin written in JUCE - but came across limitations which seem to prevent me - and other JUCE developers who want to do the same - for iOS - from implementing this - and its not down to JUCE but the fact that the current iOS 11 doesnt allow this. Am i wrong? if there is a way i can build an AUv3 plugin to process incoming MIDI and output the result - in iOS11 and with the upcoming AUM i'd really like to know about how to do it ( and the ROLI JUCE team would too ).

Here is what Fabian from ROLI said about this recently on the JUCE forum about 5 days ago:

"I’m afraid AUv3 does not support midi effect plug-ins. After about a day of investigations there are still multiple issues on Apple’s side:
Although you can happily register any AUv3 plug-in type (including kAudioUnitType_MIDIProcessor), the appex handler code expects there to be at least one audio bus - regardless of plug-in type. If not the appex handler code will bail out and AudioUnitInitialize always returns -50. You can bodge your way around this by adding an output bus with zero channels but then the plug-in will fail AU validation on macOS. AUv2s are allowed to have zero buses.
JUCE’s AUv2 and AUv3 hosting code uses the AUv3 to AUv2 bridge. To get the midi output we use the kAudioUnitProperty_MIDIOutputCallback property to inform the plug-in which callback to call. Unfortunately, after some reverse engineering I see that kAudioUnitProperty_MIDIOutputCallback will always fail for a AUv3 if the plug-in type is not a midi controller effect or a synth.
I therefore don’t see how this can be fixed without Apple officially supporting AUv3 midi effect plug-ins."

If there IS some workaround or way round these issues that you've managed to solve i'd really like to hear how it was done

brambos

Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

lukesleepwalker

@brambos said:
Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

Sold!

jhhl

AUM is a good way to mix and match iOS inter app audio technologies with AUv3, but new apps can also be AUv3 hosts and get a lot of features for free.

There are still features that can use audio and MIDI to send other kinds of information. For instance, use "audio" as a control signal, send OSC over MIDI, send spectral frames over MIDI... (or stream them over audio).
And then there's my scheme for sending degraded video as audio... it's just a matter of convention between sender and receiver.

hellojeffreyjames

I just want to variator from TU2 to make an appearance on ipad.

Samplemunch

@brambos said:
Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

So is it a hack, or have you just understood the standard better than the JUCE guys ?

brambos

@Samplemunch said:

@brambos said:
Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

So is it a hack, or have you just understood the standard better than the JUCE guys ?

Not a hack. It's an official AUv3 feature. It's just not documented, in typical Apple iOS tradition

gusgranite

@brambos I hope you're chatting with Intua guys as well re BM3!

Snekula

@hellojeffreyjames said:
I just want to variator from TU2 to make an appearance on ipad.

Amazing!!!!

Will

Will it be possible to make only some of the melodic sequencers respond to MIDI transpose?

brambos

@syrupcore said:
Will it be possible to make only some of the melodic sequencers respond to MIDI transpose?

Yes, you can disable it per sequencer instance. Or just set up AUM so that the messages won't even reach the AU instance.

[Deleted User]

May i ask if there is a reason why it can't be triggered by live midi input.
I mean, would it be possible to get an "arpeggiator" mode to get more control over live input?

wim

@Cib said:
May i ask if there is a reason why it can't be triggered by live midi input.
I mean, would it be possible to get an "arpeggiator" mode to get more control over live input?

Why what can't? Patterning?

Because the developer chose not to implement midi in for pad triggering. Probably didn't envision people would want to do that since it's a note generator itself.

nonchai

@wim said:

@Cib said:
May i ask if there is a reason why it can't be triggered by live midi input.
I mean, would it be possible to get an "arpeggiator" mode to get more control over live input?

Why what can't? Patterning?

Because the developer chose not to implement midi in for pad triggering. Probably didn't envision people would want to do that since it's a note generator itself.

I so wish Patterning would allow MIDI input to play its instruments - since the range of sounds in Patterning is so varied. I'd love to feed MIDI from one of the LumBeat drummer into Patterning for example.

nonchai

@brambos said:

@Samplemunch said:

@brambos said:
Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

So is it a hack, or have you just understood the standard better than the JUCE guys ?

Not a hack. It's an official AUv3 feature. It's just not documented, in typical Apple iOS tradition

Will the plugins in this upcoming collection have their AUV3 plugins set as synths?

Given the upcoming AUM - could one chain one of the plugins after the other - feeding the MIDI output from one synth into another plugin and so on for example - like MIDI filter effects ?
Eg - one doing a transpose function - on incoming MIDi and another accepting MIDI from the "transpose" plugin and then reharmonising the midi from this to conform to some scale ?.

This is what I mean by MIDI effect - something akin to the current MIDIFLOW MIDI filter apps that run in AB3. And its this kind of thing that - amongst other kinds of AUv3 MIDI plugin - that I need to write.

I asked the developer of the MIDIFLOW MIDI filter apps ( for AB3 ) and he doesnt think iOS11 will allow him to port his filters to AUv3 format yet. Guess we'll have to wait until WWDC 2018

Samplemunch

@nonchai said:

@brambos said:

@Samplemunch said:

@brambos said:
Well.. My plugins can change patterns using MIDI input and send out MIDI notes. So I guess that answers your question

So is it a hack, or have you just understood the standard better than the JUCE guys ?

Not a hack. It's an official AUv3 feature. It's just not documented, in typical Apple iOS tradition

Will the plugins in this upcoming collection have their AUV3 plugins set as synths?

Given the upcoming AUM - could one chain one of the plugins after the other - feeding the MIDI output from one synth into another plugin and so on for example - like MIDI filter effects ?
Eg - one doing a transpose function - on incoming MIDi and another accepting MIDI from the "transpose" plugin and then reharmonising the midi from this to conform to some scale ?.

This is what I mean by MIDI effect - something akin to the current MIDIFLOW MIDI filter apps that run in AB3. And its this kind of thing that - amongst other kinds of AUv3 MIDI plugin - that I need to write.

I asked the developer of the MIDIFLOW MIDI filter apps ( for AB3 ) and he doesnt think iOS11 will allow him to port his filters to AUv3 format yet. Guess we'll have to wait until WWDC 2018

Surely if these are MIDI plugins as @brambos says, then they will be registered as MIDI plugins and load in the MIDI slots that the host software provides, exactly the same as any other type of plugin being loaded in to their respective slots.
So what you want to do would be down to how the host implementation and nothing to do with the plugin developer.

raindro

@raindro said:
@brambos I love using the makers to sequence everything. One feature that’s would be super great is if the note input part could be scale locked when I make individual adjustments to the notes.

Wow great idea!

brambos

Another sneak preview:

realdavidai

@brambos said:
Another sneak preview:

What is the 1-8 in the top left? Are those pattern numbers?

brambos

@realdavidai said:

@brambos said:
Another sneak preview:

What is the 1-8 in the top left? Are those pattern numbers?

Yes, 8 patterns per sequence, which can have follow actions and can also be selected through MIDI.

AndyPlankton

Nice.....I spy note selection and templates for the MIDI Out

nick

So there will be two Odessas? Odessa Rhythm and Odessa Bassline?

brambos

@nick said:
So there will be two Odessas? Odessa Rhythm and Odessa Bassline?

There will be more than two at release. Odessa will be a suite of sequencers all packed into a single app. And I can easily add more to the collection whenever a new idea hits me.

AndyPlankton

@brambos said:

@nick said:
So there will be two Odessas? Odessa Rhythm and Odessa Bassline?

There will be more than two at release. Odessa will be a suite of sequencers all packed into a single app. And I can easily add more to the collection whenever a new idea hits me.

A polyphonic one for Phasemaker ?

nick

@brambos said:

@nick said:
So there will be two Odessas? Odessa Rhythm and Odessa Bassline?

There will be more than two at release. Odessa will be a suite of sequencers all packed into a single app. And I can easily add more to the collection whenever a new idea hits me.

ah, OK. Cool. so instead of selecting the type of sequencer inside the au interface, each sequencer will appear as an individual audio unit?

brambos

@nick said:

@brambos said:

@nick said:
So there will be two Odessas? Odessa Rhythm and Odessa Bassline?

There will be more than two at release. Odessa will be a suite of sequencers all packed into a single app. And I can easily add more to the collection whenever a new idea hits me.

ah, OK. Cool. so instead of selecting the type of sequencer inside the au interface, each sequencer will appear as an individual audio unit?

Indeed. Keeps 'em all super-lightweight (~1mb per instance).

lukesleepwalker

@brambos will these sequencers allow the user to control the length of a note?