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Starter DAW GarageBand -> Full DAW Logic for iOS
GarageBand is cute but, when is Apple going to get serious about iOS as a replacement for desktop/laptop and release full Logic for iOS? Why advertising the iPad as a replacement for a laptop/desktop when it just ain't so?
Comments
It will happen. Apple has the Logic engine working on iOS (GarageBand) and the Logic user interface has been sussed out as well. Which many people seem to ignore when discussing this - Logic Remote neatly covers almost all features of the desktop app.
I think we will see iOS Mainstage first, then Logic.
There are great daws already that are suited for different needs/workflows. So ipad can work as a replacement for a daw. Personally i prefer beatmaker 3, but cubasis and auria are good as well. Auria pro is the most desktop daw like. Cubasis is a bit more touch friendly, but still more like regular daw than bm3. Bm3 is more like a combination of ableton and maschine/mpc on steroids, which covers both daw and groovebox/sampler needs and this makes the workflow more suited for me.
When they say the iPad is a Post-PC device (that's how they call it) they don't mean it's a simple 1:1 laptop replacement that's going to run laptop-type software. They mean it's going to meet the computing needs of most people in a better, more pleasant way than laptops used to do. And they're right. Most people hate having to do file management, storage housekeeping, dealing with messy desktops, driver updates and stuff that doesn't work. For 99% of the computer-using population the iPad is a much better solution.
So they are quite serious about iOS as a replacement for regular computers. But they've redesigned the entire experience that goes with it. So it's not just the same decades old PC paradigm in a different box and (judging by a decade of iOS) it's likely not going to ever be that way
I think GarageBand for IOS is slowly but surely growing into a real contender. I dont know if Apple is ready to do a full on IOS version of Logic, but GarageBand for IOS has come a looooooong way, and adding the ability to record in 24bit is going to be a real game changer as far as creating GarageBand sessions on IOS and opening in Logic Pro X.
BM3 is my go to as of late, but now Im going to be recording a lot of guitars in GarageBand for IOS.
GarageBand is serious for those who use it well
I wish people would stop trying to demand that iOS be like desktop... it’s ios and has its own unique advantages
iOS is pro standard already for those who approach it in that manner
You also can try to replace your 65“ tv with an iPad.
It makes no sense.
But you know that these 99% never would need a laptop anyway for checking mails and angry birds.
That's why I say Apple is right. The iPad is the better solution for the large majority of the computer using population. Putting MacOS and Mac applications and a fully open file system on a touch device (a la Surface) would not help this demographic at all. And there's nothing wrong with checking mail and angry birds, by the way.
As long as your sources are either long live takes needing few cuts or strictly loop based material (in time), any of the better IOS DAWs is a pretty good solution.
Lots of free cut/edit operations is a pain in the back, but that's not too hard to solve.
I've seriously tried to replace the desktop for the last couple of months, but I'm back to square one on the desktop (for cut and arragement).
Efficiency/time factor is in the range of 5 to 10 with much less fatigue compared to precise actions on the tablet's surface.
It's a natural matter of fact for the fingertip hides a significant part of the screen while approching the surface and there's (currently) no smart guessing of the hit point as you experience with text applications.
But that's all solvable, if someone takes the time to consider it thoroughly.
I agree here. But those new surface (while not perfect) are not so bad and it seems people like it too.
The problem with iOS is that it merge into such a thing maybe too but without the connection to external hardware.
I also wanted always a Logic on iOS but at the end such a complex app won´t ever work without a million tabbings and menus/submenus which would be terrible with multi-touch.
And while it´s great for little apps if iOS would take over (maybe it does indeed in some years) the time of complex music tools are over.
But it´s still different markets.
But it´s true, i also could replace my notebook with an iPad if i wouldn´t love my music tools.
But if someone could make finally better FX and don´t do another synth i will consider it again
"Little" DAW´s like BM3 and the coming NS2 are as complex as apps can get for a small multi-touch device.
But if Apple made an 17" iPad which is really pro i´m all in.
I fully agree with what you're saying. And Apple's focus is clearly on the mass market (where it used to be on the niche of creatives in the early beginnings). I guess that's what you get when you're a successful publicly owned company. The shareholders would have Tim Cook's head on a platter if he were to steer Apple's direction back to some niche market.
But there's a silver lining: very slowly the iPad Pro seems to be diverging into 'creative territory' again. With the Apple pencil and other dedicated peripherals, the high end calibratable screen, hifi speaker arrangement, etc. it is showing the first signs of becoming 'something else'. Give it a few generations and we may have our touch-based-creative powerhouse device
I don´t think this is solvable. Why should it? They are different forms of input and should not replace each other.
So Apple maybe does it right to not merge it yet.
There are many things which are always a lot faster than on an iPad (and vice versa). That won´t change until we all live in the matrix.
F.e. all the loops and kits made for iOS tools.....none of them was made with iOS. Ever tried to edit a kit with 20 different FX 100 of automations and whatever. No way that works on small multi-touch devices. At least not so fast and easy.
IOS is great for what it is (or mainly was) but it begins to try solve things trough multi-touch where multi-touch sucks.
That already exist.....
But Apple also don´t care much about their pro line. The mac pro and macbook pro are underpowered and going into consumer land too.
Sure iOS and especially the iPhones are their most important market and the apps tore is a cash cow.
Again.....an app store pro is needed. As long as old devices and 7.9" screen must be supported and you can´t demo apps it won´t getting better. I mean i was going to buy me an iPad today for my birthday but it´s not really there yet....almost....but not really
If i wouldn´t use orchestrial tools and microtuning here and there i had bought it by now.
For synth only based music and a few drum kits and stuff i would say iOS is absolutley there indeed.
GarageBand iOS is only a manageable few features away from covering what most Logic users use anyway. I like the thoughtful pace they are taking to getting it right for iOS.
Not sure....why would Apple otherwise still add features to Logic. I think a lot people using a lot stuff of it. The same with other desktop DAW´s.
Not sure where everyone gots it´s numbers.....from the neighbourhood
+1
Much better than having some behemoth of a DAW where the interface looks like a bad painting of a Pearly King and Queen gathering.
@Cib you misunderstood my hint to 'loops', which was related to the edit part only.
If the source sections are poperly cut to the timing of the song and if the song grid is more or less constant, it's easy to shift such blocks on a touch device.
It's also not a big deal to have a multitrack recording in which only 3 to 5 sections are to be edited or replaced.
Regarding the 'solvable' timeline handling: this is the major bit that's missing.
The paradigm of a device doesn't matter if it's about efficiency - this is not religion.
TwistedWave already is 80% there, just the handling isn't too smart yet.
Imho there's no technical obstacle to bring it to perfection, probably it's only a lack of interest as most customers seem to work grid-oriented.
There is a lot more in common big DAW´s and at the end i agree that iOS is almost there where it should...almost.
For me it´s simple that a really complex DAW has no place on iOS devices. Is it possible in theory...yes but still why would people want it. At the end all the things which people love about iOS will be gone then. Simplicity and easy workflow. Sometimes i think people just want everything for cheap...that´s it.
It’s interesting how the size of the screen is completely forgotten and all the focus is captured by the CPU. I’d absolutely hate to use Logic on a small screen, especially with my finger.
They should release a scaled down touch friendly version of Logic. Ah wait, they already did. It’s called Garage Band!
That innocently toy like garage band manages to suck my battery dry in less then 3 hours. I’d hate to think what a fully blown Logic project might do to it.
+1
Also when i look at the app charts from time to time i bet iOS would still not be such a good market for Logic like the mac app store.
It´s still a niche in a niche.
They can add Basic features like audio Fades, region/event muting and mixer busses. Plus doubling max tracks to 64, and inserts to 8. Without compromising the clean UI. Throw in AU automation and you have a winner.
your point of view... mine is different
I want a simple DAW and I'm willing to pay a premium charge again if a tablet would save me from booting Windoze.
But even more it's the compact size, immediate 'on' and no noise emission of the tablet that I appreciate most.
ps: and I hate pictures as in Logic, GB or even the 'funny' graphics in iMPC Pro... that really pisses me off - it's totally disturbing as it summons associations I don't want around.
I understand that. But on modern notebooks you get the same and simple DAW´s are there on iOS.
I hope personally that NanoStudio 2 will fit my iOS DAW needs.
The more complex things i tried on iOS the more frustraited i was. When i gone back to the old workflow it was more fun again. Well, different people, different workflows.
However, as long as we have fun it´s anyway not important what and where we use it.
I should learn to shut my mouth and be just happy of what we have
Most people hate having to do file management, storage housekeeping, dealing with messy desktops, driver updates and stuff that doesn't work. For 99% of the computer-using population the iPad is a much better solution.
FIle management may not be fun, but I do like being able to store something and then get it back again into whatever program I want, without having to press a whole bunch of buttons trying stuff in vain with various intermediary programs because there is no intuitive file system on my ipad.
And hifi speakers? I have the new 12.9 Pro and my $15 headphones still sound better than the built-in speakers.
No one would ever mix with the speakers or?
I mean for me listening and making music is like watching a great movie. I want it huge immersive and in 3D (the Avatar 3D, not the common rip off of most movies today).
Of course most people don´t care but listening trough good speakers or good headphones is like you open your eyes really. Mp3 on iPhones trough crappy beats is not what i would call hi-fi.
I agree with this, it’s not too far off.
I never really dived into desktop music production progs except to check a few out, but for me GB has been inarguably the perfect way for me to produce music - with the help of other apps via Audiobus - without having to jump through a lot of hoops which can suck the inspiration out of it. My iPhone is at my side at all times and I don’t have to wait to get home to set up everything and do this and that to get going - I’m sure it’s what I’ve wished for.
I'm trying to imagine why Apple would make Logic for iOS. What do they gain? How many more iPads would they sell? I can more readily imagine a "GarageBand Pro," still a stripped-down touch-screen version of Logic.
We shouldn't take marketing literally. An iPad is not a normal computer. They can sell the idea that an iPad Pro can replace a desktop/laptop because in many cases it can. A pocket calculator can replace a desktop if your needs are that limited. It doesn't mean it's a replacement in every way possible. The message is that it's powerful enough as a replacement for many applications. And a laptop isn't a replacement for an iPad in every way possible. I'm sure Apple would like people to buy both, each for its particular advantages.
What do I know? But I think for iOS, Apple will just continue to improve GarageBand. That app is designed for a tablet. Logic Pro X is a huge beast of a DAW, with many features beyond what the average user is aware of---for the iPad a tiny niche market of the most demanding musicians, and while it sounds cool as an iOS app, I wonder what it would actually be like on a little tablet. As many here have pointed out, maybe not as good as just a more modestly upgraded GB. I'm still content to use an iPad for its strengths, and a larger screen and more powerful OS for what it does better.
I'm not sure I want Logic on an iPad, I've wrestled with its cousin Cubasis for a year and still have trouble with the interface. Will try Garageband again, but never found it very compelling. Modstep & AUM are my favorite hosts/sequencers. Good for capturing loops, or sequencing into a hardware rig. Would be nice if it developers could agree on certain UI/UX behaviors, but whatever, I guess the work-arounds are part of the fun.
I agree for some a 4-track cassette deck is more than enough. I still have one in the garage. It was great in the day but I crave for more. My current iPad is already much more powerful than my 1995 Windows desktop running Emagic Logic Audio for Windows.