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Wilsonic...get midi out
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Is there any trick or workaround to could use this as midi trigger.
No secret that i like microtonal but it would be great to have the „optimal“ layout for some tunings. Especially for glissando in every direction etc.
This app is amazing indeed.
Comments
@marcussatellite has big things planned for the next version of Wilsonic. Tagging him here.
@marcussatellite midi out will be very welcome!
I´m still not sure if and how that works.
I think there is a midi tool in Reaper f.e. which can use microtunings and retune every tool. Any Reaper users here which could agree or deny?
So does that mean you don´t have to import tuning files into these apps then. Since a .tun or .scl file change each midi key to another frequency.
So if such an app has now midi out but the receiving app has no tuning support what happens now.
Does the midi keys get actually tuned or will they get bend or do i need still to import the same tuning into the receiving app that they play well together.
yes this probably doesn't work. It's the sound generator that should route the standard MIDI notes to microtonal notes inside its synth engine. Therefore, in my opinion, it makes no sense to have MIDI output in Wilsonic.
I recommend to use one of the synth apps with .scl support, and load the files you exported from Wilsonic.
But what about a multi-touch app which let you define each of the 128 midi keys to those designs.
Maybe things like Midi Designer or Lemur already are quite there.
But when i see the hand drawn Wilsonic scales i must think about how great it would be if you really just could draw your own midi keyboard/controller with the pencil. That would be innovative for me for sure.
Maybe such a tools exist already?
However i mainly use my normal keyboard layout because it let me play all tunings in a common way without having to learn another muscle memory etc. But for manual played arps and glissandos and even microtonal chords it might be better to use indeed a hexagonal, pyramid or whatever layout was in mind of the creator.
Also i still prefer .tun files since they always work for me and .scl files can be buggy or weird if .kbm files are needed too.
In principle that would be the standard. But in the situation right now, if Wilsonic could support MPE out then we could use it to control 12et-only synths like Animoog and Model 15 in non12-ET.
Also, Wilsonic has its own controller surfaces that are optimized for its own tunings, which would be nice to use with other synths' native sounds.
Hi guys,
Good news is that I am developing a feature for midi out for Wilsonic, bad news is I don't have a timeline just yet (talking weeks or months). I am currently migrating much of the microtonality to the open source project AudioKit, which has a feature called "etNNPitchBend", which takes a microtonal scale's midi note number and maps it to a 12ET note number plus PitchBend. This feature is being tested now by AudioKit developers.
Keep on rockin' @marcussatellite . I love Wilsonic. Nothing else like it on IOS.
Oh, sounds great. Sad that these might stay on iOS only (such things belongs cross platform) but great news so far. Thank you for your work!
Excellent news, this will be a great combination of scale based surface control being applied in a way that increases the range of timbres you can apply using the MIDI note+pitch bend transformations. The current scala export is good, though I’ll definitely take advantage of the MIDI out option when it’s available. Thank you very much for your work on this app over the years.
I still wonder how this works. So it would takes a midi note number of a scale and remap it to a 12ET note number plus pitch bend (which have to work without latency then in the background?).
But it had to have some clever algorithm in the back or?
Otherwise if you have f.e. a scale which might have just 3 octaves across 128 midi keys and it is set to play low tones wouldn´t that make extreme pitchbends if you play in the very high register then or vice versa?
Also receiving instruments need polyphonic pitch bend (or MPE) then too?
Sorry for my dumb question, i just try to understand why that seems not so easy?
this "etNNPitchBend" AudioKit feature appears rather interesting. With such a tool one could indeed send microtunings to ordinary synths. Like the Relayer function in the Scala software. And possibly circumvent the problem with keyboard mapping using .scl only.
This is good news. I assume this AudioKit can also be applied to other apps like Geo and GeoShred, ScaleGen, Shoom, Thumbjam, Dhalang, Gender, WorldScales, etc.
Edit: it is possible to do a scale translator in Lemur. I made one, but it's so tricky and complicated when you press many notes in quick succession, I had to abandon that project. Better wait for that AudioKit thing.
Wait....you say i already have such a tool...since i own the custom scale editor pro? Or do you talk about something else?
This "etNNPitchBend" indeed sound like a nice workaround but still it could be tricky since synths doesn´t get the frequency but a midi note number (which might be far away from the incoming) and pitch bend message. Can i even use pitch bend for vibrato or further bending now if it already is pitched up or down?
However, this could work great for "close to 12" notes scales.
.tun files seems still the best so i hope iOS tools get them more in the future.
indeed microtuning with pitchbend has a big disadvantage, one may lose the ability to use normal pitchbend in its full range. I've used Scala Relayer for years, and simply had to forget about using the pitchbend wheel.
I also have a CSE license, but the software is crashing in Windows, so I never could work with it. What are your experiences with CSE?
Yeah, i see no better option than .tun or .scl + .kbm.
I never tried that with CSE. I also tried Scala but alone to install this things i got bored.
There was a conversation about microtuning in KVR forum as well and someone also mentioned that the live retune thing does often not works like it should, some notes way off etc.
I also wonder how you would have to set the pitchbend range of the receiving instrument if that is used for tuning as well.
I just want more instruments which support tuning for itself. There are quite a lot for desktop but really not much for iOS and some of them even don‘t work proper with some tunings or they make it quite complicated to import and save tunings.
But things like the Wilsonic app makes it fun and let me enjoy to play with those tunings. Great and easy to use GUI. Scala and CSE might give you even a lot more options to create your own scales etc. but they are terrible to use.
But midi out in Wilsonic would then just send the midi note number f.e. if receiving tools don‘t support tuning too if that won‘t use that pitchbend thingie.
yes the pitchbend range of the receiving synth must be correct when using Scala Relayer or other software that uses the same method. Which may complicate things further if the pitchbend range is part of a patch of the receiving synth, one has to check every time after a preset change. It's a workaround, not a proper solution.
But let's see how (or if) this announced new AudioKit feature is going to solve the problem.
While MIDI note+pitch bend to get the proper frequency in synths has drawbacks and limitations, it’s still better than nothing. Incorporating this into AudioKit does suggest that having baked in scale support for apps using it in the future could be possible along with methods to overcome the MIDI+pitch bend difficulties.
It would be nice to have a Wilsonic AU MIDI app and similar apps which could directly address AU synth apps without needing to manually adjust or lose pitchbend functionality.
Currently you’re limited to three wave timbres from Wilsonic in combination with whatever effects you add to the signal. It would be nice to have access to the whole range of tools including chords, arps, and sequencers for non-12 tone scales too.
Scale appropriate controllers with access to sound module synths without compromising functionality would be the ultimate goal. If MDI came up with a standard for microtonal music, it would be a way to really open them up to musicians without unwieldy workarounds. It would also be nice to have hardware with enough flexibility and a creative user interface to add controls reflecting scale structures rather than adapting play to a traditional 12 tone scale.
There might even be classes of scales which smaller independent companies could manufacture or take advantage of 3D printer technology to manufacture customized controllers based upon a scala file included with the order.
But i still vote for .tun and/or .scl file import and everything works
Everything else won´t work "perfect" for real-time midi retuning on the fly. In general the receiving synths must know which frequency you need instead of just a midi note number. Depending on the tunings you could play midi note #60 which might have a very low frequency in the tuning but might be 3 or 4 octaves higher in the receiving tool. Then it would need to bend it extreme which sound especially with samples not good. Or it would have to know what the next frequency would be to bend it the shortest way. If that would work it could introduce latency? But maybe they bring something new to it? Let´s see. I´m open for everything about that.
But still i hope iOS grow a bit faster in this area since everything else is just another workaround which is not needed really and things could be more easy to play nice together.
But i really appreciate developers which try to find a way for us to make things happen.
I mean even in the desktop world it might be still a niche feature. I even would like to have a tuning system in every tool where i just could set each midi key to it´s own frequency (i think Pianoteq Pro can do that f.e.).
But i can understand that it´s not a priority for developers.
And chord could be indeed very interesting. If the Wilsonic app had something like chords for the different tunings it would be awesome. While it´s already not easy to play an "exotic" tuning it might be even more difficult to find chords which works together, especially if you try to play that on a normal keyboard instead of a layout which works better for certain tunings like hexagonal etc.
There are actually some interesting tuning machines like this:
https://hpi.zentral.zone/pdf/articles/Scale_Station_specification_v14_PUBLIC.pdf
Visionary--I like it. Recall that Linnstrument has open source code. If the code could be modified to support some of the Erv-ish controllers, by lighting up the Linnstrument's key colors in some organized manner....