Stability: Cubasis 2 Vs. Auria Pro

Telstar5

Thanks @richardyot
Also, @Strizbiz : That was some valuable comparison info I’ve never seen yet. Thanks!

futureaztec

@Strizbiz said:
I find both to be stable on my IPad Air 2. Over all I would say Auria Pro has more features, especially when it comes to the mixer. It just has more features , you can even import video via an IAP, but I record in Cubasis because it feels more fluid. Auria Pro doesn’t have manual punching in, just auto punch, and feels less spontaneous for me at times. With Cubasis you can jump to a different instrument track while the song is playing, jump in and out of record mode by hitting the record button. In Auria Pro if you want to jump to playing a different instrument, or go into record mode while playing a track, you have to always hit stop first. If I’m working with a vocalist in Auria Pro and they want to punch in and out a particular part I have to set in and out points and have Auria Pro punch in for me, in Cubasis I can just manually punch and out. If Auria Pro had punching in on the fly I’d probably use it almost exclusively for recording vocals and guitars, but as it stands now I use Cubasis for that. If you’re working with someone and they’re playing something killer and jamming to the track and you want to be sneaky and record them while they don’t know it in the middle of what they’re doing without stopping the track you can only do it in Cubasis. No manual punching in is my one and only con with Auria Pro and sadly the developer said it would just take to much to add it, and it’s strange because literally ever other Daw has it. Sorry for being so long winded about it, lol.

Interesting to know this limitation, thanks.

futureaztec

I also am frustrated often with the lack of Link support in Cubasis. The free app MidiLinkSync helps a bunch. Also, if you run Cubasis and other Link apps in Audiobus, you can get everything to play and stop together with the Audiobus transport. The fact that Link delays the start until the loop cycles makes it tricky sometimes, but it is possible.

I find that the bpm fluctuates too much with MidiLinkSync (this is not the app's fault). I was using the Korg Sync app to and a click track to my Pocket operator, then Syncing the Korg app via Ableton Link to MidiLinkSync which was taking it's cue from Cubasis 2's clock. Unfortunately not only was it fluctuating but would soon drift out of time. The whole situation sapped my excitement about the PO-33 and Cubasis 2 being friends.

futureaztec

@lovadamusic said:
In my experience, there's something to be said for getting what you pay for. A complete DAW that is reliable enough to trust on a live professional gig for $25 to $50, and pro plug-ins for less than that, on a platform designed for multi-purpose consumer use? Auria's dev is one guy! Let's just say my expectations are tempered. I love Auria and Cubasis for what they do, but to say it as generous as possible, it hasn't always been clear sailing. I'm also not a live performer, so there may be ways to make it work reliably if you stick to a limited set up.

I hear you there and agree, but I must say I am totally surprised, considering how long the iPad has been around -- how awesome it potentially could be as a mobile recording device (the potential market share must be astounding given how trendy all the electronic music production stuff has become), surprised yes that we are in this general situation we are in. If I could invest I would throw a bit of money at WML and Steinberg and truly find out what all the hold ups are. No offence to anyone -- maybe I would hire NASA to do some sort of productivity assessment.

I imagine that Apple is the root of the problem, given what I hear from developers. Bottom line, Auria pro is expensive, but at the same time I bet many people would pay triple on the forum if there was an alternative that approached what Ableton has done with Live.

In the meantime I need to focus on what I can do and muster the discipline to back to making music again, like I was on my laptop.

Will

If you're aim is to play live, use AU instruments and have a solid clock, why not skip the DAW and use AudioBus or AUM? They're both incredibly solid for me with regard to stability and clock.

JRSIV

@brambos said:

@futureaztec said:

@powerobject said:
Auria Pro on an iPad mini is a bad idea - you need at least Air 2 or iPad Pro.

According to this there is only about 10% difference b/w an iPad Mini 4 and an Air 2...

I use both and I can confirm that in practice I don't feel a noticeable difference in performance. They use the same CPU, and while in theory the Air 2 should be a tiny bit faster, it's not much and I would recommend going with the device form factor that works best for you.

@brambos & @richardyot are on the money with their input. I love them both, own both, but if it was Desert Island time, pick one only I’d go with Auria Pro.

AP has a few issues with AUv3’s when their stacked up in great numbers, so to me freezing and/or bouncing in place solve the issues. I know some producers not used to working on anything analog don’t like to not have maximum flexibility for remixing, making changes to tracks recorded years earlier, etc. But committing to a decision can really help creativity & a projects success.

If too many AUv3’s are causing Auria to hiccup freezing/bouncing will ease the load. As Rich & others noted the in app FabFilter plugs and everything internal with Auria works great, rarely do I see 70% or higher CPU strain when using many of AP’s bells & whistles.

richardyot

@futureaztec said:
Bottom line, Auria pro is expensive, but at the same time I bet many people would pay triple on the forum if there was an alternative that approached what Ableton has done with Live.

But Ableton is around ten times more expensive than Auria Pro. And what's more Ableton taps into a much bigger market, iOS is a small niche market and most devs struggle to achieve high sales numbers. In fact for devs it's a pretty bad combination of small market and low price expectations, as well as no straightforward way to charge for upgrades etc...

It would be interesting to see the reaction if a fully fledged DAW like Ableton Live was ported to iOS and sold for $500 in the App Store...

LFS

Hi all,

Will not comment on the regular topic, but want to add:
If you run into stability issues when using Audio Units, please make sure to let the instrument and/or effect plug-in vendors know about it. While we do our best to constantly exchange with 3rd parties wherever possible, it is important to have your experiences shared with them as well.

Best,
Lars

[Deleted User]

I agree. Just yesterday after I had given up on recording Cubasis at 48khz project while hosting the Discord4 AU effects app, no matter what settings I changed, no sound would be produced while recording midi to a track. Until I removed the Discord4 app, then I was able to play back. But then I realized that removing and reloading the app did the trick. So in essence You’re right, most of the issues are due to external AUs.

@LFS said:
Hi all,

Will not comment on the regular topic, but want to add:
If you run into stability issues when using Audio Units, please make sure to let the instrument and/or effect plug-in vendors know about it. While we do our best to constantly exchange with 3rd parties wherever possible, it is important to have your experiences shared with them as well.

Best,
Lars

CracklePot

@LFS said:
Hi all,

Will not comment on the regular topic, but want to add:
If you run into stability issues when using Audio Units, please make sure to let the instrument and/or effect plug-in vendors know about it. While we do our best to constantly exchange with 3rd parties wherever possible, it is important to have your experiences shared with them as well.

Best,
Lars

That fact that you are here taking part in any discussions says a lot actually.
GO CUBASIS !!!!

rickwaugh

@futureaztec said:

@lovadamusic said:
In my experience, there's something to be said for getting what you pay for. A complete DAW that is reliable enough to trust on a live professional gig for $25 to $50, and pro plug-ins for less than that, on a platform designed for multi-purpose consumer use? Auria's dev is one guy! Let's just say my expectations are tempered. I love Auria and Cubasis for what they do, but to say it as generous as possible, it hasn't always been clear sailing. I'm also not a live performer, so there may be ways to make it work reliably if you stick to a limited set up.

I hear you there and agree, but I must say I am totally surprised, considering how long the iPad has been around -- how awesome it potentially could be as a mobile recording device (the potential market share must be astounding given how trendy all the electronic music production stuff has become), surprised yes that we are in this general situation we are in. If I could invest I would throw a bit of money at WML and Steinberg and truly find out what all the hold ups are. No offence to anyone -- maybe I would hire NASA to do some sort of productivity assessment.

I imagine that Apple is the root of the problem, given what I hear from developers. Bottom line, Auria pro is expensive, but at the same time I bet many people would pay triple on the forum if there was an alternative that approached what Ableton has done with Live.

In the meantime I need to focus on what I can do and muster the discipline to back to making music again, like I was on my laptop.

The problem is money. iOS devs just don't make the money that the desktop guys do. iOS users are outraged if anything is more than 10 bucks. I'd bet that the Cubasis team is pretty small potatoes compared to who works on Cubase. And Auria is one guy. Add to that that upgrades are generally free, whereas on the desktop, you get charged for new versions; if you put in an in app purchase to get new features on iOS, you'll be met with howls of outrage.

We all love iOS for its portability, and the price of the apps, but until someone can make real money, the effort put into adding new features and fixing bugs means not much return on investment.

I doubt I'd play live with an iPad. But recording at home, meh, I can put up with some weirdness and crashes, as I certainly would not be able to afford my recording set up on the desktop.

futureaztec

@LFS said:
Hi all,

Will not comment on the regular topic, but want to add:
If you run into stability issues when using Audio Units, please make sure to let the instrument and/or effect plug-in vendors know about it. While we do our best to constantly exchange with 3rd parties wherever possible, it is important to have your experiences shared with them as well.

Best,
Lars

Much appreciation to Lars for fantastic customer service.

wim

@syrupcore said:
If you're aim is to play live, use AU instruments and have a solid clock, why not skip the DAW and use AudioBus or AUM? They're both incredibly solid for me with regard to stability and clock.

This.

No way I would use any iOS DAW to play live. I would get as much as possible finalized down to wav files then just use the file player in AUM, or maybe use Loopy Pro. I would practice over and over until all the kinks are worked out. If I still needed to have the flexibility of sequenced Midi then I would send it to stuff hosted in AUM or Audiobus from something that is doing only that job. ModStep and Xequence come to mind. Even if I did decide using a DAW was trustworthy, no matter which, I would commit as much to audio files as possible and limit to just the absolute bare minimum of plugins. Murphy's law.

I hate almost to mention it since I use it so rarely, but GarageBand could also fit the bill. It has the totally under-appreciated clip launcher that can launch both Audio and Midi tracks / loops from the same place.

If your primary goal is composing and finishing tracks, the answer would be different. It sounds as if you're geared toward performing.

Will

@wim said:
... or maybe use Loopy Pro.

Hold on there, sparky. Do you mean Loopy HD or are you beta testing Loopy Pro???

Will

@CracklePot said:

@LFS said:
Hi all,

Will not comment on the regular topic, but want to add:
If you run into stability issues when using Audio Units, please make sure to let the instrument and/or effect plug-in vendors know about it. While we do our best to constantly exchange with 3rd parties wherever possible, it is important to have your experiences shared with them as well.

Best,
Lars

That fact that you are here taking part in any discussions says a lot actually.
GO CUBASIS !!!!

I mean, yes, sure, but his part was "It's not us, it's them".

/kidding @lars.

wim

@syrupcore said:

@wim said:
... or maybe use Loopy Pro.

Hold on there, sparky. Do you mean Loopy HD or are you beta testing Loopy Pro???

I have a custom version built exclusively for me. My legal counsel advises me not to disclose the cost.

(kidding. I just mis-typed. That's what happens when you're supposed to be working but you're lurking the AB forum instead.)

lovadamusic

@rickwaugh said:

@futureaztec said:

@lovadamusic said:
In my experience, there's something to be said for getting what you pay for. A complete DAW that is reliable enough to trust on a live professional gig for $25 to $50, and pro plug-ins for less than that, on a platform designed for multi-purpose consumer use? Auria's dev is one guy! Let's just say my expectations are tempered. I love Auria and Cubasis for what they do, but to say it as generous as possible, it hasn't always been clear sailing. I'm also not a live performer, so there may be ways to make it work reliably if you stick to a limited set up.

I hear you there and agree, but I must say I am totally surprised, considering how long the iPad has been around -- how awesome it potentially could be as a mobile recording device (the potential market share must be astounding given how trendy all the electronic music production stuff has become), surprised yes that we are in this general situation we are in. If I could invest I would throw a bit of money at WML and Steinberg and truly find out what all the hold ups are. No offence to anyone -- maybe I would hire NASA to do some sort of productivity assessment.

I imagine that Apple is the root of the problem, given what I hear from developers. Bottom line, Auria pro is expensive, but at the same time I bet many people would pay triple on the forum if there was an alternative that approached what Ableton has done with Live.

In the meantime I need to focus on what I can do and muster the discipline to back to making music again, like I was on my laptop.

The problem is money. iOS devs just don't make the money that the desktop guys do. iOS users are outraged if anything is more than 10 bucks. I'd bet that the Cubasis team is pretty small potatoes compared to who works on Cubase. And Auria is one guy. Add to that that upgrades are generally free, whereas on the desktop, you get charged for new versions; if you put in an in app purchase to get new features on iOS, you'll be met with howls of outrage.

We all love iOS for its portability, and the price of the apps, but until someone can make real money, the effort put into adding new features and fixing bugs means not much return on investment.

I doubt I'd play live with an iPad. But recording at home, meh, I can put up with some weirdness and crashes, as I certainly would not be able to afford my recording set up on the desktop.

The money iOS musicians are willing to spend must keep companies like Ableton and Native Instruments away, and many others only offering limited editions of their software, but there must be even more to it than that. Apple is apparently not interested in attracting them, or their vision of the iPad isn't compatible. First, the way the App Store works is not set up for these companies to operate the way they do. Apple doesn't compromise much with iOS. Then because iPads are general purpose consumer devices, and ambitious musicians are a small niche market, it's not a priority for Apple to create specs that ensure the kind of clarity and consistency needed for truly flexible and reliable inter-app performance. Why doesn't Apple at least offer a rough equivalent to Logic Pro that performs well on iPad Pros? Maybe iOS simply isn't up to it.

Apple offers GarageBand for iOS, and that seems to be indicative of their vision. Keep it relatively simple for the general user with a pretty powerful and attractive tool for music-making. Pushing the envelope beyond that gets limited attention, but enough that we iPad owners have a device that is very capable. The key is taking advantage of what it does well.

Will

@wim said:

@syrupcore said:

@wim said:
... or maybe use Loopy Pro.

Hold on there, sparky. Do you mean Loopy HD or are you beta testing Loopy Pro???

I have a custom version built exclusively for me. My legal counsel advises me not to disclose the cost.

(kidding. I just mis-typed. That's what happens when you're supposed to be working but you're lurking the AB forum instead.)

Damn. A fella can dream.