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"Future" : My song completely composed using iPad
Hi
Below is the SoundCloud link of my song titled "Future".
It is a try for an orchestral song on iPad and is completely composed using iPad. Samples are from "SampleTank" and "iSymphonic Orchestra".
I used "Audiobus" together with" Midiflow Randomizer" to humanize playing the samples. Mix is done using "Auria".
I don’t have studio monitors so for mixing I mainly used iPad earpods. Also I have a very very limited theoretical background in music. So please forgive if you think it sounds bad.
I would be glad to hear about any problems and shortcomings you may find in the song.
Regards
Comments
you choose a difficult subject, which becomes even more difficult in the IOS environment.
An orchestral arrangement is very demanding (if you want it to sound like the real thing) because you have to setup a virtual space for each instrument(group).
In real life this is done automatically by the recording room, which isn't present with samples. Without information about how the samples were recorded you have to guess from listening and then figure out how to treat/place instruments onto the virtual stage.
In your track they are more or less spread all over the stage and there's few dynamic expression, which makes the mix sound rather flat and undefined
(no need to be disappointed, this is one of the most challenging jobs in digital audio)
Aside from technical aspects the track lacks a flow in groove - it kind of hops.
That's the 2nd big challenge in digital orchestral pieces: you have precise midi notes, while an orchestra has sheets and a conductor to interprete the score.
You can't fight this with randomizing, as that's not happening in an orchestra - those folks don't play with ultra-precise timing, but their deviation is controlled by natural feedback.
They listen and view the conductor, who's listening to the whole group.
One of my most stunning musical experiences was a classical orchestra that really need a couple of pieces to get into the groove. They started almost shy, but literally rocked the hall in the end.
Basically it's the same with every kind of live-music versus DAW constructed stuff.
Nevertheless I respect your approach a lot (wouldn't dare myself).
@Telefunky
Thank you so much for the comment.
Actually i totally agree with you. I knew that eventually DAWs can not mimic real orchestral instruments. And actually i didn't put lots of effort to do so because i knew it is very difficult (if not impossible).
What i had in mind was to built an structure (melodies, chords, choosing and arrangement of instruments) which i can hear on iPad and would say that it would sound good when played by real instrument.
I don't want to be picky here.
But.......
How do I say this?
You joined the AB forum and posted you new song? Just now?
Help me understand what is going on here?
You want opinions of people on a forum you never used?
You are using a fake name and we know who you are?
You are a shameless internet "self promotion" troll who wants likes or will try to sell us something within the next 100 posts you do?
Thanks for clarifying
@RUST( i )K
English is not my mother tongue (I am Iranian), but as far as i could understand, i guess you are concerned about my motifs for posting my song here.
"who wants likes". why should i want that? what good does it do fro me?
"sell us something": i couldn't understand. what do you mean by that?
but about clarification:
1- i have been using AB forums many times. (not registered). many times i had difficulties in using Auria, finding orchestral instrument apps, finding notation apps and things like. it is how i got familiar with AB. when someone is not registered it doesn't ecessary mean that they do not use a site.
2- my main objective for posting my song here is what i explicitly mentioned:"I would be glad to hear about any problems and shortcomings you may find in the song"
it is because i don't have many people around me who can help me improve my works.
i hope that does the clarification part. and i hope we can just talk about music-related aspects after.
regards
Hey - it takes guts to post your music on a forum, so you have my respect for that.
Telefunky covered most of the problems that I have with the piece and made excellent suggestions. Leaving production values aside, my biggest issue is (also as Telefunky mentioned) is the general plodding nature of the composition and the way each segment seems to sort of stop and start. Overlaying one segment with another might remedy some of this, as well as changing the key here and there - introducing a new movement before the other has quite finished could help. Possibly adding a few “off notes” as minor digressions to take away from the stolidity of the piece could help. I’m not a classical music expert, but that genre (and jazz as well) are full of interesting digressions that give the music some richness and life.
Thank you for sticking your neck out.
@ALB
Thank you so much. That was just what I was hoping to hear. Helped a lot. I think the keyword here is ”digression”. Piece should not be so “stiff”. I got the idea. That was really great help.
You are most welcome. Good luck - onward and upward!
What a warm welcome.
I guess I am suspicious as a person's first post is a song.
That is all.
Seems a bit abnormal.
I don't know if I have ever seen a persons first / second post being "hey guys check out my new song"
I think being skeptical is my nature.
Not meant to be personal.
More protective of a forum..... I feel has a solid framework and trusted member base.
Unlike most other online forums....so if something doesn't look right.
I question it in a polite manner but explain why I am doing so.
I think its fair approach
put the shotgun down, Billy, he's one of us!
@NoneNone
bit different with acoustic instruments. i seem to be heading that direction- i've just got thumbjam. i still love creating patches tho. nice tune.
@mrcanister
Thank you for your support.
You know, I think acoustic instruments and electronic synths kind of complete each other. Warmth of acoustic instruments together with strange feeling of various synth sounds, can be fitted togheter. As if having old world and modern world both with you.
So one who is familiar with both of them, can make great musics.
I enjoyed this!
I agree with the feedback already given. And I think you definitely have something with potential in its overall composition. But it’s far too mechanical, precise and lacking the dynamics of an orchestral performance. Which, as has already been stated, is an incredibly hard thing to replicate with virtual instruments and samples. But I think you could start by taking advantage of volume automation on everything. Let the instruments breathe with and against one another. Swell the collective volume of a section when needed, then refrain. Let the individual sections breathe (volume) into each other to help them flow together. Lose the quantize, or at least reduce its strength. Strict quantizing will immediately kill any hopes of authenticity. Also explore a more dynamic cadence. Mimic how someone speaks the words in a sentence. If their words were quantized they would sound like a robot or a weirdo. Also, adjust / lightly randomize the release stages of your various instruments to mimic a group of players and the amount of subtle variations that occur in how they each play. Good luck!
Jeez! You were a newbie here too once.
You also got plenty of warnings and leeway from the mods here for Clickbait threads etc.
Get off your high horse and be more welcoming like those longer term members were to you!
Welcome @NoneNone It’s usually more welcoming around here. Please stick around and welll done on finding the correct creations section to post!
Listened to the track. A good first stab. Keep going.
You have a real talent for melodic development. I like the contrast between the sections of the piece. The contrast is strong, but they fit together well in my opinion.
I think the fact that the accompanying arrangement mainly consists of blocked in chords is contributing to the plodding, broken up feeling. You could remedy this by applying your talent for melody to the arrangement, and try to craft melodic lines for the orchestral sections that convey the harmonic structure and movement in a more interesting way. In other words, keep doing what you are doing, just go farther with it and treat the arrangement with the same attention to detail as you did with the main melody and overall compositional structure.
As a quick tip for the production, I would suggest killing all of the reverb on the individual sound/instrument apps if possible (it may be in the sample, which would be hard to get rid of), and apply a nice reverb on the master bus in AUM or your DAW. That will help unify your different sources into a common space.
I encourage you to comment on other members’ creations posts. I think you would add a unique and welcome point of view to those topics. Also, check out the Song of the Month topic, as it may interest you.
Welcome aboard the Bus.
@theconnactic, SpookyZoo : Thank you so much.
@brice : your are right. I strictly quantize the notes so may be it is one of the problems. Also I think as you suggested, volume automation is the easy part that I can begin with. Thank you so much.
@CracklePot
thank you so much.
“craft melodic lines for the orchestral sections that convey the harmonic structure and movement in a more interesting way”: brilliant advice. I think it will do a lot.
“I encourage you to comment on other members’ creations posts. I think you would add a unique and welcome point of view to those topics.”
Will definitely do that.
Great song.
Great talent.
Great feedback.
Wonderful.
Supportive.
Loving.
Great.
Did I mention supportive?
I don't even know what clickbait or being "welcomed' and all that even means.
I am in the real world.
Clickbait isn't real.
Warnings and leeway..........LOL .....not real world.
I don't look for online love and support for my emotional needs as an artist.
Sorry.
But thanks for your feedback.
I guess it is well intentioned.
Otherwise, you are just voicing an opinion on a post just like I did.
OH WAIT!
That is exactly what just happened.
Because grown ups have different interpretations and opinions. That is dialogue between strangers from around the world.
Everyone is not giving each other pep talks and cyber love because that may not be the real world for everyone.
I hope you understand, I don't mean disrespect.
But I respect the right of you to disagree or call me an asshole. I do.
I hope you have ability to respect me for who I am.
We are musician and artist to begin with. Many of us from punk and urban background, conforming and an embracing community are not natural states for many people.
It is all about respect and being able to not always agree but not make it personal.
That is key.
Have a great night.
Gotta be ready for a gig in an hour.
Peace and love............
@SpookyZoo It’s probably all good. I don’t think @NoneNone took offense at @RUST( i )K poking him a bit.
@RUST( i )K You asshole.
I think both of you are just looking out for the forum in your own way, and that is a good thing.
Compositionally, I like it very much. That is to say, a pleasing melody, musical idea, etc. In terms of the performance, however, it feels too stiff and robotic. The tempo and dynamics need to breathe, if it is to sound like a real orchestra. Was this actually played using a keyboard or step programmed on a grid? It sounds more like the latter. Playing it in on a keyboard, with more velocity expression, would help. If the goal is just to document a sketch of an idea, then this does a good job. But more work would be needed to make this sound more like a real orchestra — which can be done! Thanks for sharing. In terms of other issues raised. Using less generic user names would arouse less suspicion. “NoneNone”? Come on, you can do better than that!
@Lady_App_titude
Thank you for your comment. Glad you enjoyed the music.
The performance was like that: I played tracks using a midi keyboard and recorded the notes. So velocities and length of notes are ok. But I strictly quantized the timing (not length) of notes after recording. I knew it shouldn’t be strictly quantized but I had a workaround: when converting each track form midi to wav (to use in Auria), I used Midiflow Randomizer to randomize timing of the midi notes, with a 50 ms tolerance range.
I used this way to be sure that tracks won’t be out of the rythem (because I am in no way a keyboard player), and in the same time they won’t sound robotic (which unfortunately the do!). Now I am trying to see if the result gets better when I widen the tolerance range (for example to 200 ms).
As Donald Fagen famously said, “You don’t want random.”
Real players don’t play randomly. They play with “feel”. It involves a subtle changes in timing, volume, and timbre, done spontaneously with an unconscious musical sense. I wouldn’t turn to a machine for that. I’m not saying I don’t use quantising and that people shouldn’t use it as a general rule (in fact in some kinds of music — modern dance music — you very much want machine-perfect rigidity). But making it work in orchestral music, and keeping it sounding natural, can be an art in itself.
@Lady_App_titude
“Real players don’t play randomly”. Yes. Totally true. I am trying to find a way to solve this problem. Takes time to find a way. May be I have to improve my skill in playing using keyboard.
@Lady_App_titude perfect summary
I don't have a chance to improve my keyboard skills for left hand tendon damage.
So I turned to the fine art of digital snipping - and became quite good in the audio domain.
Recently tried it on midi sequences and it worked surprisingly well.
Loop a small section and shift a bunch of midi events on the timeline of the piano-roll editor. It's not only about position but also notelength. The editor should keep events linked so the same drift/extension/shortage is applied to all of the selected group.
So while the loop is playing listen carefully to the changes of the track's feel while you shift the events around. I usually don't mind the basic rhythm grid but focus on ear impression only.
@Telefunky
yes. I believe listening to the change in the feeling will teach a lot.
BTW actually what I now am trying to do to give life to the peice is to start from easiest modification, which is to make accompanying chord blocks more versatile and detailed.
After that I will need some time to study and practice great suggestions that you and others suggested (the practice you mentioned above, volume automation,...) which I am sure will help me so much to improve my work. Thank you all for the help.
Really good ideas in there. I’ve heard people make some nice sounding stuff with really expensive orchestral samples on a Mac or Pc.
I saw a great tip about quantizing one part most likely the drums . Then turn off quantizing and record the other parts. This will make the other parts flow more naturally
This!
Totally agree - the union of synths and 'regular' instruments is the kind of music I love most and strive to make (albeit not very well lol). It's all just sound waves but variety in the characteristics of those waves makes it all much more interesting - the more variety the better. Cool FX (applicable to absolutely anything), a monster palette of massively modifiable synth-generated sounds and endless combinations thereof make the possibilities virtually limitless. Fusing them together can sometimes be a challenge but the rewards are there, and the sum total is that it's hard to get bored