Apollo MIDI over Bluetooth is not on the bus!

otem_rellik

@SecretBaseDesigns --I've tried setting the clock output destination (in loopy) on one ipad to apollo and setting the clock input (again in loopy) to apollo on the other and can't seem to get them to work correctly. Does it matter what device is set as 'A' and 'B'? Seem like i must have tried all combinations by now and haven't had much luck. It might be a loopy issue. I appreciate the feedback!

Munibeast

@SecretBaseDesigns Thanks, now I got it.

SecretBaseDesign

@otem_rellik -- it shouldn't matter which device is A or B (on iOS devices -- the desktop version has to be a "B"). Did you set Apollo to forward MIDI to Loopy?

I have not played with this, but will try to check it out and see if I can see something odd going on….

otem_rellik

Cool, yeah both devices have loopy on in the midi connections section of apollo. I'm thinking it might be somthing going on in loopy. I actually just got it to start and stop from one loopy to the other, but it's only after i have loops on both devices, and doesn't look like the bpm's are synced.

[Deleted User]

@SecretBaseDesign I have a question....

I am trying to control my ipad air with my iPhone 5 but am having problems with latency.

Here is my setup....

IPhone 5 running Apollo & Beatmaker 2 connected to a samsung 49 keyboards via CCK, Ipad air running Apollo, Auria and ISEM via IAA and Sampletank via IAA connected to an audio interface (then amp) via CCK.

Initially when i play on the keys of the samsung 49 I get zero noticeable latency when controlling Sampletanks drums which is great.

Here's the problem......I want to record my first pass into bm2's sequencer using the metronome to assist my sense of tempo but I get latency around half a second to a second as soon as I press play on the BM2 transport and press a key on the samsung 49...

Do you know why this maybe ?

[Deleted User]

I have figured it out, turned midi clock send off in bm2 and latency is gone

SecretBaseDesign

@DaveMagoo -- I'm going to add clock filtering (and internally generated clocks) in the future. There's a finite amount of bandwidth on the Bluetooth channel, and if you've got a zillion clock messages, things will go badly.

The Mac version is resubmitted (I had called it ApolloOSX, and that's apparently against the Apple naming rules. Apollo for Mac would have been OK. ApolloOSX is a no-no.). On the Mac, it may be necessary to set up an IAC driver using Audio MIDI Setup (an Apple utility that comes standard). Some desktop apps were having trouble connecting to Apollo, but once you get the IAC driver going, things seem good. Bi-directional MIDI should happen as soon as I can make sure I prevent MIDI loops on the Mac.

I've got to get my act together on another video, too. I'm noodling around with GuitarPro on the Mac. I've got my guitar plugged in to the iPad, MIDImorphosis converting pitch to MIDI, the MIDI goes to Apollo, and then onto the Mac. Transcribing with the desktop GuitarPro, and triggering sounds in Logic. Good clean fun!

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the update, it may be what's throwing bm2's timing off when triggering the apps as setup above.

I get an odd slip here and there and it just sounds off with the timing somehow vs the metronome (and my ears!).

The same is true when playing a 4 bar loop with a simple kick when it loops back the the first bar it sounds like when you get to the end of a vinyl record and it loops just out of timing.

Im loving the vision and possibilities with this app, I hope the next update helps to smooth the setup above and get it working as desired so I can then make music wirelessly on my iPhone in Auria via my amp which is just crazy !

supadom

Ok. I'll be trying to sync my ipad with drummer's iphone to get him a click. Has anyone tried doing something like that? I presume he just needs to download a metronome app that responds to midi clock and make it listen to Apollo. Failing that I guess a drum machine of sorts. Dm1 springs to mind. Any advice well appreciated.

Edit: the drummer's phone is on ios8. Hope that is not an obstacle.

SecretBaseDesign

Hmm -- does your drummer need to hear an audible click track, from something you're sequencing on your iPad? If you create a track in the sequencer with quarter notes (or whatever), and send that over Apollo to the other device -- and then have that sent to a drum sample in a synth -- that might take care of what you need.

MIDI clock can be a PITA; not all apps deal with it correctly. Further, MIDI clock sync sends (if I recall correctly) 96 tick messages per quarter note -- that's a LOT of MIDI traffic. With that much traffic, wireless latency and jitter get bad, which causes variation in the clock timing, and things don't sync nicely. The way MIDI clock is done might have made sense in the 1970s, but it's kind of a screwed up way to do it now. I'm planning on adding some clocking functions to Apollo, but that hasn't happened yet.

I saw your post over on the FB iPad Musician group -- as I mentioned there, it's worth trying the free version of Apollo first; I don't want the money if it's not going to do what you need it to do.... But you might get something that works nicely by just sending a track of quarter notes, rather than a firehose of MIDI clock signals.

supadom

The trouble is I don't use a midi sequencer in my live set up because midi is still a little drunk in my experience so far. The only non-fx app that behaves well when slaved to loopy that I've tried in my set up before is xynthesizr. The only problem is that I'm at a full ram capacity at the moment and don't won't to go above 256 frames in audiobus. It may have to wait until the 2gb ram model comes out. Whichever model that might be.

supadom

Ok. Got it working between my air and 4s. Xynthesizr to sunrizer xs. Latency is possibly just a bit too much for what I need it for but still quite impressive considering how much goes on. When using longer notes it's almost the same but with short and snappy sounds it shows quite a lot. Will see what the drummer thinks of it. Thanks

SecretBaseDesign

Cool -- if you're running clock messages over the connection, that may be increasing the latency (there's a TON of messages from MIDI clock); the MIDI notes that actually trigger sound can get delayed by the clocking, and depending on the iOS version, the Bluetooth connection might be getting throttled.

My long term plan is to have the two endpoints sync up, and stay in sync with fewer messages. The MIDI clock strategy was designed for equipment from the 70s, where there could be a ton of clock drift. Modern devices have much better internal clocks, so there's no need to check 100 times a second to see if they're still in sync.

Even on a single device, MIDI clocking can suck. I was noodling around this morning, running Loopy as a clock source, with FunkBox receiving. The tempo interpreted by FunkBox jumps all over the place, because the individual clock sync messages have a little bit of jitter.

If you need a simple MIDI generating app -- I'd suggest checking out Little MIDI Machine, from the same people who make FunkBox. Great little app, made even better because it's free!
http://syntheticbits.com/littlemidi.html

supadom

Cool. Followed your advice on using little midi machine. I already had it but haven't used it much (more like never). So got it ticking on the ipad and thumbjam listening on the iphone with a drumkit loaded and it works! Pretty decent latency too. This is still not the real world situation but I'll be definitely trying it out tomorrow with all of my usual apps loaded. Hopefully little midi won't tip the ram balance in the wrong way. If that works, cool, if not I'll get it to work on the new ipad. Thanks man.