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Yes I know all this, I don't want to get caught up in semantics
What I'm saying is that a brick wall limiter has a high threshold and a hard knee, it prevents audio from clipping by hard limiting anything that is likely to go beyond 0db. But it doesn't affect the audio that is below 0db, thanks to the hard knee. I don't think Maxima is doing this, it sounds like it is compressing the signal as well, as if it had a soft knee (a gradual curve rather than a sudden right angle), which is why I compared it to a bus compressor. Hope that makes sense. And for what it's worth I might be wrong in my assessment, I'm just going on what I'm hearing (namely the audible pumping).
Just to add, it's also possible that the pumping is being caused by a slow release time. Most brick wall limiters act very fast, but if the release is slow then it would be possible to hear pumping, especially when the limiting is heavier.
This thread is a delightful read:) I would have liked to have given a more critical listen but my hearing is not so good at the moment due to a viral infection. Sounds to me like any one of the contenders can give a good to excellent job if understood how to properly implement it. Whenever I'm ready to do limiting though I think I'm going to stick with one for now and learn it well and that would be Fabfilter Pro-L2
Any thoughts on the $50 bucks spent on Lurssen? I agree that it seems to do the best job (low end definition, nice clarity in the mid-high, and high). Seems like Grand Finale was not as good as Lurssen but, it was pretty good (and $42 cheaper). I have Final Touch (picked it up for $3.00 on sale a couple of years ago), and it's not bad but, Lurssen definitely sounded better by comparison. There were a couple of complaints up on the App store regarding it being a bit of a hard drive hog, and limited exporting ability.
@Telefunky Regarding image shift => Something I should note in the documentation too! Current version of FAC Maxima is “dual mono”. A single set of parameters but two independant channel, so yes this may shift the stereo image in some circumstance. If you look at the graph (waveform viewer) you should have seen that from the very beginning.
And this is a good opportunitty to bring new stuff in FAC Maxima, I think this is time to maybe consider an additional stereo link parameter? BUT I’ll keep definitely the existing mode (dual mode), because both have pros and cos regarding the situation. And as I want too keep it versatille, it’s perfect. Only problem is time, always time… I’m very busy on the new app. Not easy, free time is never never never enough
@theconnactic, @richardyot FAC Maxima can be used on on various application, regarding how it’s setted. It’s a combination of dynamic processor: kind of compressor, kind of limiter. Maybe the best qualifier is maximizer. It provides AGC of your input signal.
Yes I feel bad that the first file published comes from a “not ideal” user config (AUM +6db, threshold -18dB) but that is the game
I hope you learn to use it better, yes different usage than the others but most of the time instant result, just subtle adjustement of the threshold.
An idea for everyone and so a way to learn all the different parameters: fire a drum loop, very basic but having some king of room reverb or something. And you start lowering the threshold and hear how it behaves, then play with the reset time to accetuate pumping or not, and go like this arround all parameters. You know the input, then you will for sure spot the differences regarding parameters you use
Is there a clear winner among all of the apps tested?
Having done all of the tests, which app would the OP declare as the winner?
there is no winner based on this test for no reasonable engineer would squeeze such type of track into the level applied here.
@richardyot (imho) wanted to check one isolated feature: loudness gain.
Then he experienced a couple of pits on the way and tried his best to finish.
There's still something to be learned from the example (as Fred mentioned).
@FredAntonCorvest thanks for the explanation. I'll answer at a more appropriate place.
Actually for a CD master done "loudness wars" style the processing I did was still too quiet
But yes I did say in the original post that a reasonable master of the track would add maybe 5db of gain (which would take it to roughly -14 LUFS) rather than the 10db or so I used in the comparison. The reason to push harder in the test was to see how much distortion would appear.
IMO Pro L2 does the least damage to the track, and is also louder than the others, more transparently maximising (and also having the best metering). But having said that if the levels were pushed less hard then all of the options would be OK.
And thanks to Fred for joining in and pointing out my mistake and clarifying a few things about Maxima, and sorry for not doing Maxima justice in my initial test.
I used the Pro-L snippet as a reference when checking your unprocessed track with my familiar desktop tool and also think it performed really well.
An interesting thing observed was a slight grit on a 0dB/fs kick hit in my version, while it remained clear in Pro-L. But my intermediate rendering was 16bit, so I'm curious if it happens in 24bit again (can't do it atm).
Highs in Pro-L also seemed to be a bit more pronounced, which may be a result of the oversampling.
This track would have no problem if the peaks never cross -0.25 dB, but I agree to the idea to intentionally drive it to the max and hear what happens.
2 sounded smoothest to my ears , I'm happy to say I guessed which one it was
... This was quite a helpful comparison ., I quickly jotted down a ranking of my 2 favorites, along with last place ...at first I couldn't tell if 2 or 3 was my goto mastering tool, but upon second listening, it became more evident that 2 was the more natural sounding of the group. 3 = was my second place, and 4 was my least favorite.
edit ... It seems 4 was the only one that actually damaged the signal in an immediately noticeable way ..seemed like it had some phasing issues going on or something. -- Monitoring with Sennheiser HD600 headphones through Komplete Audio 6 interface.
Richy thanks for this thread.
When I have some serious listening time I will dig into this.
Very interesting to me.
I think many people also forget each developer puts so much compression and stereo/mono/mid balance settings built in to each app.
That is current bugaboo.
Finding the apps that:
1- I LIKE WHAT THEY DO
2- THEY SOUND GOOD WITH OTHER APPS THAT I LIKE
3- I CAN GET THEM TO MIX "play nice" with CIRCUIT
What has been interesting for me is comparing audio from my primary iPad(AIR2) run into audio interface
and they audio from Novation, Circuit coming in from Behringer mixer input into audio interface, and then finally audio coming from the output headphone jack of secondary iPad into the mixer as well.
The fun and challenge is running the Circuit and secondary iPad audio thru mixer into audio interface and through AUM at multi destinations and ultimately run these thru AUM for use in the primary iPad.
Did I make that even understandable?
Your thread is great idea.
This thread is amazing. I have to be honest: Pro-L was the only stand-out for me. The rest all sounded the same. Maybe that's due to tinnitus, age, hearing loss, being lame, whatever... but it was instructive to me. It showed that I don't really care to own any other mastering apps since I can't tell the difference between them anyway.
I think something important here that we need to remember is this:
THE TOOL IS ONLY AS GOOD AS HOW YOU USE IT.
Look - I'm guilty of this all over the place too. I think we all forget that the sound is in our ears and fingers - how we get there is just the tools we use. I like what I like, so I expect that I would get similar results mastering in Grand Finale as I do Final Touch. Not to say that one is better - just my $0.02
I’m fairly disappointed the same tune came out the other end. I’d have thought it would rearrange it a bit, put a different chorus in, change the meaning of the verse, remove the parrot until the end, etc.
I'm undecided whether to go with Bram Bos' Parotmakr or FAC Parrotizer for that, though. Anyone got a comparison?
.
Sound wise I take Final Touch but that app is a pain navigate. GrandFinale has a smooth one screen interface and I think it sounds just fine. Also I don't believe Final Touch has been updated much.
Which of these are iPhone-able?
Maybe comparison fatigue? I've been trying to find a spare 15 minutes to listen through it.
Well, this week I have been mainly doing mastering – over and over. I can honestly say that I understand it all now – I’m now what I would consider an expert in mastering, and there’s nothing about mastering that confuses me. Mastering holds no fear, mastering isn’t a mystery, mastering is a thing that as far as I’m concerned is totally sorted out now.
I’m now not quite so concerned about the differences between mastering apps, as long as they all provide what best-practice mastering is generally accepted to expect, and this was more or less put in place by the 1960s and has evolved and refined but not really changed direction since then.
I also note that Final Touch will predictably and repeatedly crash my iPad Pro if I use headphones through a lightning adaptor. My Sennheisers don’t fit through the incorrectly-sized hole in the Apple iPad Pro back case, so I have to lever it partially off and bend it back to fit the headphones into the jack, which pulls it partially away from the keyboard cover. I don’t think they had this sort of problem back in the ‘60s.
What a relief, glad that’s all over and done with
Could you make a video about the headphones jack issues? And maybe one about time machines would be welcomed
Thanks