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questions/problems with timing of MIDI Control in AUM
I started with a goal of recording an AUM lane so it aligns on a measure boundary. I'm using Xequence as the MIDI source, and any synth as input in AUM Lane 1. All three pieces are set at a tempo of 120BPM. Here's the setup:
- Two tracks in Xequence, one sending to the sound synth on MIDI-1, and the other intended to contain the MIDI control messages on MIDI-16.
- I have Xequence track 1's first note at the beginning of the second measure.
- Xequence track 2 contains the Toggle Record control for AUM at the beginning of the first measure.
- I enable recording for the AUM lane (manually).
- I play the MIDI in Xequence, and I expect the following to occur:
- The Toggle Record control is received by AUM and recording begins.
- One measure later, AUM receives the MIDI notes from Xequence track 1 and plays the synth.
- When the MIDI phrase is complete, I switch to AUM and stop recording.
- I open the resulting file in AudioShare and I expect the silence at the start to be 2 seconds (one measure/4 beats at 120BPM).
- I sent the audio file to any editor (I've done it in three different ones) and measure the silence.
- Instead of 2 seconds (the time from the Toggle Record to the first note on the synth), it's 1.93 seconds.
This implies that there's a lag in AUM responding to the Toggle Record command.
If I put the file in an AUM FilePlayer and loop it, after 10 loops .07 seconds is now .7 seconds, which is unacceptable for any accurate alignment.
Yes, I CAN manually edit the audio (TwistedWave, Hokusai, GoldWave on the desktop) and force that silence to be two seconds long, But if want to create 10 different tracks to be used in individual FilePlayers in AUM, that adds quite a bit of time to the creation process.
Anyone have any insight or suggestions about how to remedy the problem? I appreciate whatever you can provide.
Comments
I forgot to mention that I put another Toggle Record (stop recording) at the beginning of Measure 11 in the Control track in Xequence, which means that I should get exactly 40 beats, 20 seconds of audio with 2 seconds of silence at the start. As it turns out, I DO get 20 seconds, but the audio only has 1.93 seconds, 1 measure of silence, at the beginning. That means whatever lag that occurs in AUM's response to Toggle Record is consistent, both for the start and the stop.
To work around this problem, you could shift the control track backwards in time by tapping on its cogwheel, and then adjusting the Delay slider to -70 ms. For this to work though, you would need to move all parts to the right by one bar, and start playback from the first bar so that the track delay has “air to breathe” before it.
(another option would be to shift all note tracks by +70 ms, then the 1 bar offset isn’t necessary of course).
I would try using link instead of midi triggers. You hit rec before the measure starts, or stop before the measure ends, and it will start or stop rec right at the measure mark.
Also, if you are using loops that are off by only some milliseconds, try using the sync option in the AUM File Player. It can correct for the slight difference in loop lengths.
Based on what you emailed me before about the program change placement, that makes sense. I'll try shifting the notes by 70ms and see how that works.
Thanks! I'm having trouble figuring out the relationship between Link and Xequence, but even so, it seems like what you're suggesting is that I MANUALLY press record and stop. It seems like that would be kinda fidgety to be able to tap the buttons at just the right time to catch it before the measure I want to align it to. But if @SevenSystems will give me some pointers on how to use Link with Xequence, I'll give that a try too. With Link on in Sequence, would the steps be something like:
- first, don't use the MIDI control and turn on Link in Xequence.
- then start playing Xequence and switch to AUM and press record.
- With that plan, you're saying it would start recording at the next measure boundary?
I haven't tried Sync in the File Player yet. How does AUM know that the end of the silence and the start of the notes (1.93 seconds) is supposed to be a measure boundary. Is that a dumb question? I'm trying to wrap my head around it.
Thanks to you both for your ideas!
I tried the method of Xequence track delay and that worked perfectly. Thanks! I'll still look more into the other methods.
Don’t use midi control in this case.
Yes, you would press play in Xequence, switch to AUM and hit record before the start of the measure you want as the beginning. You can be pretty sloppy with the timing, I think anywhere in the the last quarter note (in say, 4/4) should be good. Same goes for hitting stop. Hit stop during the last quarter note and it will end on the measure boundary. If you need more time to switch to AUM, add a blank measure or two at the beginning in Xequence to give you the time you need to switch.
So with your loops, are you including 2 seconds of silence in the beginning of the file, but don’t want that silence in the looped portion of the file? That would require a loop point marker in the file that hopefully AUM can read and use. Not sure about that part.
If you just need your loops to come in at certain times, you can toggle the File Players on and off by sending a note message from Xequence. You would use Midi Control in AUM to configure it to respond to a range of notes, one per File Player. Sending that note from Xequence will Toggle the File Player on and off. It will start at measure boundaries, per Link. But it will stop immediately upon receiving the next note message, so place that stop note with intent.
@motmeister ahhh, you’re the “Arbitrary placement of Program Changes” guy
@CracklePot’s suggestion is even better. All that Ableton Link does is ensure that all apps where Link is enabled run exactly synchronized to the nearest bar boundary. So yes, this might actually solve your problem without the Delay trick.
AUM's main record toggle is already synchronized with the beat, see the Sync Quantum setting in Clock Options. You tap it before a quantum boundary, and it waits until the boundary (default: multiples of 4 beats) until it actually switches state. The resulting file will be a whole number of sync quantums in length, needing no trimming to make a good loop. Note that you must switch the toggle before the sync boundary you want, and not on it, because it needs some time to setup the files for recording etc.
This of course only works if AUMs clock is synchronized with whatever controls the sounds you're recording. I recommend standard host sync, or Ableton Link. I'm not sure what Xequence supports.
Thanks for those tips about letting AUM control the alignment. I had a little trouble finding Clock Options, but I got there. Sequence does support Ableton Link. Yes, the alignment of the start seems to work well. Comparing the two methods:
MIDI-CTRL method:
Put the MIDI controls for record toggle (I control stop too) in a separate track in Xequence, and delay the note tracks by 70ms. Pluses: I DO get an audio file properly aligned and of a perfect length that I control. Minuses: I have to remember to Delay my note tracks in Xequence.
AUM Sync method:
Pluses: I get the audio start perfectly aligned, but it did not appear to honor the measure boundary when I pressed Record stop. Even though the start alignment was right, the length of the audio was not an even number of seconds/measures. Minuses: At 120BPM, in order to give me time to switch from Xequence to AUM to press record on, I needed three measures for nothing in Xequence. And as mentioned, the length issue.
All this hoopla to get a precise start and length saves me from post-recording audio editing. At some point I hope to stop with the technical issues and actually make music! This helps me get closer to simplifying a workflow so I can think musically and get it out without losing the creative spurt when I have to switch to the other side of my brain. 🤯
Thx to all. All of you lean toward the Link method, but I’m leaning toward the MIDI-CTRL method. For me, I was better able to achieve precision on both ends using it. I did learn a lot from this dialog, and when I’m depending on Link to align non-audio-recording items. I know better how to use it. I’ve made note of all of this in my personal “Tips and Tricks” notepad. 😁 I use MS access with a separate note area for each item I’ve learned about my music hardware/software. It saves me from learning everything multiple times (at 71, I need all the help I can get!)... LOL
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If you tap the record toggle while it's recording, it will wait until the next sync boundary and stop the recording exactly on time. If you tap stop (the play/pause toggle), the recording will end immediately. So just tap the Rec toggle and wait until it has stopped recording by itself.
THANKS! The information will be helpful in the AUM Sync method.